How do living politicians protect their readily obtainable signatures from misuse?





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







39















Many living politicians' signatures are found online or can handily be acquired (You can write them, and their letters will contain their signature). Thus do they use a different signature for personal private documents? If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent? I deliberately quote signatures of lesser-known politicians.



The Rt Hon. George Osborne MP



enter image description here



The Honourable Rona Ambrose PC



enter image description here



Some members of the Minnesota House & Senate



enter image description here










share|improve this question




















  • 8





    What harm do you believe could be done by replicating the signature of George Osborne, for instance?

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 18 at 15:10






  • 42





    You seem to be missing the fact that signatures don't actually mean anything.

    – only_pro
    Apr 18 at 15:49






  • 3





    @NateEldredge Someone can use his signature and commit fraud?

    – Postmodernist Antinatalist
    Apr 19 at 2:17






  • 6





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what specific fraudulent acts would those be, and would they actually succeed? I think you'll find that, in this day and age, one cannot really achieve any significant evil ends just by copying a person's signature.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 19 at 2:30








  • 4





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what companies actually offer such an order form, and depend only on signature matching to authenticate? The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the first to realize that it is very common for unauthorized people to have access to a person's signature, and therefore in real life, people do not design systems that rely solely on signatures as an authentication mechanism. Any such systems would have collapsed under rampant fraud long ago.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 20 at 23:01




















39















Many living politicians' signatures are found online or can handily be acquired (You can write them, and their letters will contain their signature). Thus do they use a different signature for personal private documents? If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent? I deliberately quote signatures of lesser-known politicians.



The Rt Hon. George Osborne MP



enter image description here



The Honourable Rona Ambrose PC



enter image description here



Some members of the Minnesota House & Senate



enter image description here










share|improve this question




















  • 8





    What harm do you believe could be done by replicating the signature of George Osborne, for instance?

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 18 at 15:10






  • 42





    You seem to be missing the fact that signatures don't actually mean anything.

    – only_pro
    Apr 18 at 15:49






  • 3





    @NateEldredge Someone can use his signature and commit fraud?

    – Postmodernist Antinatalist
    Apr 19 at 2:17






  • 6





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what specific fraudulent acts would those be, and would they actually succeed? I think you'll find that, in this day and age, one cannot really achieve any significant evil ends just by copying a person's signature.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 19 at 2:30








  • 4





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what companies actually offer such an order form, and depend only on signature matching to authenticate? The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the first to realize that it is very common for unauthorized people to have access to a person's signature, and therefore in real life, people do not design systems that rely solely on signatures as an authentication mechanism. Any such systems would have collapsed under rampant fraud long ago.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 20 at 23:01
















39












39








39


4






Many living politicians' signatures are found online or can handily be acquired (You can write them, and their letters will contain their signature). Thus do they use a different signature for personal private documents? If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent? I deliberately quote signatures of lesser-known politicians.



The Rt Hon. George Osborne MP



enter image description here



The Honourable Rona Ambrose PC



enter image description here



Some members of the Minnesota House & Senate



enter image description here










share|improve this question
















Many living politicians' signatures are found online or can handily be acquired (You can write them, and their letters will contain their signature). Thus do they use a different signature for personal private documents? If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent? I deliberately quote signatures of lesser-known politicians.



The Rt Hon. George Osborne MP



enter image description here



The Honourable Rona Ambrose PC



enter image description here



Some members of the Minnesota House & Senate



enter image description here







physical-signature






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Apr 19 at 2:16







Postmodernist Antinatalist

















asked Apr 18 at 5:59









Postmodernist AntinatalistPostmodernist Antinatalist

18625




18625








  • 8





    What harm do you believe could be done by replicating the signature of George Osborne, for instance?

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 18 at 15:10






  • 42





    You seem to be missing the fact that signatures don't actually mean anything.

    – only_pro
    Apr 18 at 15:49






  • 3





    @NateEldredge Someone can use his signature and commit fraud?

    – Postmodernist Antinatalist
    Apr 19 at 2:17






  • 6





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what specific fraudulent acts would those be, and would they actually succeed? I think you'll find that, in this day and age, one cannot really achieve any significant evil ends just by copying a person's signature.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 19 at 2:30








  • 4





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what companies actually offer such an order form, and depend only on signature matching to authenticate? The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the first to realize that it is very common for unauthorized people to have access to a person's signature, and therefore in real life, people do not design systems that rely solely on signatures as an authentication mechanism. Any such systems would have collapsed under rampant fraud long ago.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 20 at 23:01
















  • 8





    What harm do you believe could be done by replicating the signature of George Osborne, for instance?

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 18 at 15:10






  • 42





    You seem to be missing the fact that signatures don't actually mean anything.

    – only_pro
    Apr 18 at 15:49






  • 3





    @NateEldredge Someone can use his signature and commit fraud?

    – Postmodernist Antinatalist
    Apr 19 at 2:17






  • 6





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what specific fraudulent acts would those be, and would they actually succeed? I think you'll find that, in this day and age, one cannot really achieve any significant evil ends just by copying a person's signature.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 19 at 2:30








  • 4





    @PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what companies actually offer such an order form, and depend only on signature matching to authenticate? The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the first to realize that it is very common for unauthorized people to have access to a person's signature, and therefore in real life, people do not design systems that rely solely on signatures as an authentication mechanism. Any such systems would have collapsed under rampant fraud long ago.

    – Nate Eldredge
    Apr 20 at 23:01










8




8





What harm do you believe could be done by replicating the signature of George Osborne, for instance?

– Nate Eldredge
Apr 18 at 15:10





What harm do you believe could be done by replicating the signature of George Osborne, for instance?

– Nate Eldredge
Apr 18 at 15:10




42




42





You seem to be missing the fact that signatures don't actually mean anything.

– only_pro
Apr 18 at 15:49





You seem to be missing the fact that signatures don't actually mean anything.

– only_pro
Apr 18 at 15:49




3




3





@NateEldredge Someone can use his signature and commit fraud?

– Postmodernist Antinatalist
Apr 19 at 2:17





@NateEldredge Someone can use his signature and commit fraud?

– Postmodernist Antinatalist
Apr 19 at 2:17




6




6





@PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what specific fraudulent acts would those be, and would they actually succeed? I think you'll find that, in this day and age, one cannot really achieve any significant evil ends just by copying a person's signature.

– Nate Eldredge
Apr 19 at 2:30







@PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what specific fraudulent acts would those be, and would they actually succeed? I think you'll find that, in this day and age, one cannot really achieve any significant evil ends just by copying a person's signature.

– Nate Eldredge
Apr 19 at 2:30






4




4





@PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what companies actually offer such an order form, and depend only on signature matching to authenticate? The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the first to realize that it is very common for unauthorized people to have access to a person's signature, and therefore in real life, people do not design systems that rely solely on signatures as an authentication mechanism. Any such systems would have collapsed under rampant fraud long ago.

– Nate Eldredge
Apr 20 at 23:01







@PostmodernistAntinatalist: But what companies actually offer such an order form, and depend only on signature matching to authenticate? The point I'm trying to make is that you are not the first to realize that it is very common for unauthorized people to have access to a person's signature, and therefore in real life, people do not design systems that rely solely on signatures as an authentication mechanism. Any such systems would have collapsed under rampant fraud long ago.

– Nate Eldredge
Apr 20 at 23:01












5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















77














They don't. Outside the lowest security scenarios, signatures aren't intended to be security feature to prevent forgery.



In most cases, putting a signature on paper is just ceremonial. The actual details/decision may have been recorded through other means. For example, depending on what exactly is being signed and how sensitive the matters is, by witnesses (whether by sworn individuals or even just casually), through publications in mass media, or filed into a register on a trusted computer system/filing cabinet.



In the latter case, the paper you receive, even when physically signed with ink and even if it's the paper signed when you shake hands in agreement, might just be considered a copy of the true records in the registry you don't really see. This is similar to how a birth/death/university degree certificate is really just a copy of the registration detail in your civil/university records, the only really important detail in that piece of paper is the record number rather than the signature. A person who has reasonable suspicion that the letters might be a forgery should confirm with the office of the relevant signer to check for its authenticity. For important, formal letters, there may be a filing number for the file that you can cite to confirm the content of the letter.






share|improve this answer





















  • 2





    Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

    – a CVn
    Apr 20 at 13:05



















24















If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent?




They can't - but this problem is not restricted to politicians. Many of us leave signatures in various places (bank, rental agreements ...) and we have no control of who has access to these signatures, might scan these and reuse these somewhere else.



In other words: the trust which can be placed in a document just because it seems to be signed is very limited, especially if this is not the original document but just a copy or electronic representation. Everybody who has to rely on such documents need to be aware of this and needs to have additional verification depending on the kind of trust actually needed.






share|improve this answer



















  • 11





    In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

    – Matthew
    Apr 18 at 8:37






  • 1





    Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

    – Harper
    Apr 18 at 21:39



















9














Hand written signature is a very old concept. It is just based on few assumptions:




  • putting one's own signature on a original document is an explicit consent on what is written on the document

  • a copy of the original just have no value at all, unless it is in turned manually signed by an authority that confirms that it is correct

  • forging a handwritten signature is forbidden by law and will lead to legal actions.


That is a totally different concept from digital signature. Once a digital document is signed, it is admitted that it can be copied at will and any copy will have the same value. And the protection is technical while the protection of a handwritten signature is mainly legal.



Once I have said that, there are some caveats:




  • a manually signed telecopy have just no legal value, until you can find the original document - it is just a hint that the original might exists

  • digital archives of manually signed documents have no legal value, unless special procedures are used to have an authority to confirm that they were correct by digitally signing the digital archive. And the force of that archives cannot be greater than the faith on the authority that signed them


Because of that, images of handwritten signatures do not need special protection.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    "identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

    – Mazura
    Apr 19 at 0:35











  • There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

    – bob
    Apr 19 at 18:15



















8














Signatures have started out as an honor system: before widespread literacy, there was no realistic means of telling one X from another. They haven't come far since.



Currently, the only security measure is that ink signatures on paper can be analyzed by forensic document examiners to determine if a signature matches others produced by the person it's meant to identify. This requires physical access to the paper to examine the ink very closely.



Translating this to modern security concepts, there is no secret in the image of the signature. Rather, the image is public and simultaneously serves as a signature and a sample (certificate) for verifying other signatures by the same person. The secret or the private key is the exact sequence of strokes with the angle, velocity and pressure for each, required to produce the same imprint on paper.



These parameters and their distribution over each stroke are difficult to match manually and will usually differ enough for an expert to distinguish. Non-manual reproduction, be it by photocopy or facsimile, is much easier to detect.



Electronic tablets meant to capture handwritten signatures digitally also record and store these parameters, not just the image, in an attempt to provide similar protection. However, the current industry practice for this, at least in the largest vendor's implementation, relies on steganography rather than cryptography, rendering it insecure.






share|improve this answer


























  • nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

    – Charles Duffy
    Apr 18 at 14:59



















6














Anyone's signature on anything is subject to verification if challenged in court. Celebrities sometimes have assistants (or machines) sign photos for them. If someone presents them with a check or contract that they apparently signed, they can argue that their signature was duplicated without authorization and the other party has to prove otherwise.



There's even a system in place to avoid this entire problem. A notary public offers a service where they serve as an official, impartial witness for your signing of a document after verifying your identity. They keep a legal record of the event that can be used in court to confirm that a signature was genuine and proper. If a document is important enough that a forged signature is a real problem, then there will almost certainly be a requirement to have that signature notarized.






share|improve this answer
























  • Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

    – supercat
    Apr 19 at 22:41






  • 1





    @supercat They don't mark each page?

    – David Richerby
    Apr 19 at 23:12






  • 1





    Also what about evil notaries?

    – beppe9000
    Apr 20 at 15:32











  • @DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

    – supercat
    Apr 20 at 16:35






  • 1





    @beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

    – David Richerby
    Apr 20 at 17:00












Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "162"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fsecurity.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f207640%2fhow-do-living-politicians-protect-their-readily-obtainable-signatures-from-misus%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes








5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









77














They don't. Outside the lowest security scenarios, signatures aren't intended to be security feature to prevent forgery.



In most cases, putting a signature on paper is just ceremonial. The actual details/decision may have been recorded through other means. For example, depending on what exactly is being signed and how sensitive the matters is, by witnesses (whether by sworn individuals or even just casually), through publications in mass media, or filed into a register on a trusted computer system/filing cabinet.



In the latter case, the paper you receive, even when physically signed with ink and even if it's the paper signed when you shake hands in agreement, might just be considered a copy of the true records in the registry you don't really see. This is similar to how a birth/death/university degree certificate is really just a copy of the registration detail in your civil/university records, the only really important detail in that piece of paper is the record number rather than the signature. A person who has reasonable suspicion that the letters might be a forgery should confirm with the office of the relevant signer to check for its authenticity. For important, formal letters, there may be a filing number for the file that you can cite to confirm the content of the letter.






share|improve this answer





















  • 2





    Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

    – a CVn
    Apr 20 at 13:05
















77














They don't. Outside the lowest security scenarios, signatures aren't intended to be security feature to prevent forgery.



In most cases, putting a signature on paper is just ceremonial. The actual details/decision may have been recorded through other means. For example, depending on what exactly is being signed and how sensitive the matters is, by witnesses (whether by sworn individuals or even just casually), through publications in mass media, or filed into a register on a trusted computer system/filing cabinet.



In the latter case, the paper you receive, even when physically signed with ink and even if it's the paper signed when you shake hands in agreement, might just be considered a copy of the true records in the registry you don't really see. This is similar to how a birth/death/university degree certificate is really just a copy of the registration detail in your civil/university records, the only really important detail in that piece of paper is the record number rather than the signature. A person who has reasonable suspicion that the letters might be a forgery should confirm with the office of the relevant signer to check for its authenticity. For important, formal letters, there may be a filing number for the file that you can cite to confirm the content of the letter.






share|improve this answer





















  • 2





    Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

    – a CVn
    Apr 20 at 13:05














77












77








77







They don't. Outside the lowest security scenarios, signatures aren't intended to be security feature to prevent forgery.



In most cases, putting a signature on paper is just ceremonial. The actual details/decision may have been recorded through other means. For example, depending on what exactly is being signed and how sensitive the matters is, by witnesses (whether by sworn individuals or even just casually), through publications in mass media, or filed into a register on a trusted computer system/filing cabinet.



In the latter case, the paper you receive, even when physically signed with ink and even if it's the paper signed when you shake hands in agreement, might just be considered a copy of the true records in the registry you don't really see. This is similar to how a birth/death/university degree certificate is really just a copy of the registration detail in your civil/university records, the only really important detail in that piece of paper is the record number rather than the signature. A person who has reasonable suspicion that the letters might be a forgery should confirm with the office of the relevant signer to check for its authenticity. For important, formal letters, there may be a filing number for the file that you can cite to confirm the content of the letter.






share|improve this answer















They don't. Outside the lowest security scenarios, signatures aren't intended to be security feature to prevent forgery.



In most cases, putting a signature on paper is just ceremonial. The actual details/decision may have been recorded through other means. For example, depending on what exactly is being signed and how sensitive the matters is, by witnesses (whether by sworn individuals or even just casually), through publications in mass media, or filed into a register on a trusted computer system/filing cabinet.



In the latter case, the paper you receive, even when physically signed with ink and even if it's the paper signed when you shake hands in agreement, might just be considered a copy of the true records in the registry you don't really see. This is similar to how a birth/death/university degree certificate is really just a copy of the registration detail in your civil/university records, the only really important detail in that piece of paper is the record number rather than the signature. A person who has reasonable suspicion that the letters might be a forgery should confirm with the office of the relevant signer to check for its authenticity. For important, formal letters, there may be a filing number for the file that you can cite to confirm the content of the letter.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 18 at 13:10

























answered Apr 18 at 13:04









Lie RyanLie Ryan

24.4k35178




24.4k35178








  • 2





    Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

    – a CVn
    Apr 20 at 13:05














  • 2





    Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

    – a CVn
    Apr 20 at 13:05








2




2





Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

– a CVn
Apr 20 at 13:05





Even if there's no filing number, even the most mundane document is likely to be dated and contain some kind of reference; for example, both documents shown by OP contain a recipient name and address, and one contains what is presumably a document date (the other contains an effective date). Assuming a half-way decent filing system, that should be sufficient to locate the "true" record.

– a CVn
Apr 20 at 13:05













24















If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent?




They can't - but this problem is not restricted to politicians. Many of us leave signatures in various places (bank, rental agreements ...) and we have no control of who has access to these signatures, might scan these and reuse these somewhere else.



In other words: the trust which can be placed in a document just because it seems to be signed is very limited, especially if this is not the original document but just a copy or electronic representation. Everybody who has to rely on such documents need to be aware of this and needs to have additional verification depending on the kind of trust actually needed.






share|improve this answer



















  • 11





    In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

    – Matthew
    Apr 18 at 8:37






  • 1





    Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

    – Harper
    Apr 18 at 21:39
















24















If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent?




They can't - but this problem is not restricted to politicians. Many of us leave signatures in various places (bank, rental agreements ...) and we have no control of who has access to these signatures, might scan these and reuse these somewhere else.



In other words: the trust which can be placed in a document just because it seems to be signed is very limited, especially if this is not the original document but just a copy or electronic representation. Everybody who has to rely on such documents need to be aware of this and needs to have additional verification depending on the kind of trust actually needed.






share|improve this answer



















  • 11





    In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

    – Matthew
    Apr 18 at 8:37






  • 1





    Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

    – Harper
    Apr 18 at 21:39














24












24








24








If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent?




They can't - but this problem is not restricted to politicians. Many of us leave signatures in various places (bank, rental agreements ...) and we have no control of who has access to these signatures, might scan these and reuse these somewhere else.



In other words: the trust which can be placed in a document just because it seems to be signed is very limited, especially if this is not the original document but just a copy or electronic representation. Everybody who has to rely on such documents need to be aware of this and needs to have additional verification depending on the kind of trust actually needed.






share|improve this answer














If not, how can they guarantee that their signatures aren't replicated without their consent?




They can't - but this problem is not restricted to politicians. Many of us leave signatures in various places (bank, rental agreements ...) and we have no control of who has access to these signatures, might scan these and reuse these somewhere else.



In other words: the trust which can be placed in a document just because it seems to be signed is very limited, especially if this is not the original document but just a copy or electronic representation. Everybody who has to rely on such documents need to be aware of this and needs to have additional verification depending on the kind of trust actually needed.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Apr 18 at 6:40









Steffen UllrichSteffen Ullrich

123k16216283




123k16216283








  • 11





    In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

    – Matthew
    Apr 18 at 8:37






  • 1





    Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

    – Harper
    Apr 18 at 21:39














  • 11





    In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

    – Matthew
    Apr 18 at 8:37






  • 1





    Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

    – Harper
    Apr 18 at 21:39








11




11





In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

– Matthew
Apr 18 at 8:37





In fact, the first letter even states that it wasn't signed by George Osbourne personally - it's just a scan of his signature printed onto the letter...

– Matthew
Apr 18 at 8:37




1




1





Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

– Harper
Apr 18 at 21:39





Before PayPal, peoplr on eBay mailed paper checks. Hundreds of people got my sig and bank account numbers (on the bottom of every check). Never had a problem with my sig, but someone used my bank account numbers to charge their auto insurance once. I reversed, but by that time they had gotten their proof of insuranve for the DMV ...

– Harper
Apr 18 at 21:39











9














Hand written signature is a very old concept. It is just based on few assumptions:




  • putting one's own signature on a original document is an explicit consent on what is written on the document

  • a copy of the original just have no value at all, unless it is in turned manually signed by an authority that confirms that it is correct

  • forging a handwritten signature is forbidden by law and will lead to legal actions.


That is a totally different concept from digital signature. Once a digital document is signed, it is admitted that it can be copied at will and any copy will have the same value. And the protection is technical while the protection of a handwritten signature is mainly legal.



Once I have said that, there are some caveats:




  • a manually signed telecopy have just no legal value, until you can find the original document - it is just a hint that the original might exists

  • digital archives of manually signed documents have no legal value, unless special procedures are used to have an authority to confirm that they were correct by digitally signing the digital archive. And the force of that archives cannot be greater than the faith on the authority that signed them


Because of that, images of handwritten signatures do not need special protection.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    "identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

    – Mazura
    Apr 19 at 0:35











  • There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

    – bob
    Apr 19 at 18:15
















9














Hand written signature is a very old concept. It is just based on few assumptions:




  • putting one's own signature on a original document is an explicit consent on what is written on the document

  • a copy of the original just have no value at all, unless it is in turned manually signed by an authority that confirms that it is correct

  • forging a handwritten signature is forbidden by law and will lead to legal actions.


That is a totally different concept from digital signature. Once a digital document is signed, it is admitted that it can be copied at will and any copy will have the same value. And the protection is technical while the protection of a handwritten signature is mainly legal.



Once I have said that, there are some caveats:




  • a manually signed telecopy have just no legal value, until you can find the original document - it is just a hint that the original might exists

  • digital archives of manually signed documents have no legal value, unless special procedures are used to have an authority to confirm that they were correct by digitally signing the digital archive. And the force of that archives cannot be greater than the faith on the authority that signed them


Because of that, images of handwritten signatures do not need special protection.






share|improve this answer





















  • 1





    "identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

    – Mazura
    Apr 19 at 0:35











  • There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

    – bob
    Apr 19 at 18:15














9












9








9







Hand written signature is a very old concept. It is just based on few assumptions:




  • putting one's own signature on a original document is an explicit consent on what is written on the document

  • a copy of the original just have no value at all, unless it is in turned manually signed by an authority that confirms that it is correct

  • forging a handwritten signature is forbidden by law and will lead to legal actions.


That is a totally different concept from digital signature. Once a digital document is signed, it is admitted that it can be copied at will and any copy will have the same value. And the protection is technical while the protection of a handwritten signature is mainly legal.



Once I have said that, there are some caveats:




  • a manually signed telecopy have just no legal value, until you can find the original document - it is just a hint that the original might exists

  • digital archives of manually signed documents have no legal value, unless special procedures are used to have an authority to confirm that they were correct by digitally signing the digital archive. And the force of that archives cannot be greater than the faith on the authority that signed them


Because of that, images of handwritten signatures do not need special protection.






share|improve this answer















Hand written signature is a very old concept. It is just based on few assumptions:




  • putting one's own signature on a original document is an explicit consent on what is written on the document

  • a copy of the original just have no value at all, unless it is in turned manually signed by an authority that confirms that it is correct

  • forging a handwritten signature is forbidden by law and will lead to legal actions.


That is a totally different concept from digital signature. Once a digital document is signed, it is admitted that it can be copied at will and any copy will have the same value. And the protection is technical while the protection of a handwritten signature is mainly legal.



Once I have said that, there are some caveats:




  • a manually signed telecopy have just no legal value, until you can find the original document - it is just a hint that the original might exists

  • digital archives of manually signed documents have no legal value, unless special procedures are used to have an authority to confirm that they were correct by digitally signing the digital archive. And the force of that archives cannot be greater than the faith on the authority that signed them


Because of that, images of handwritten signatures do not need special protection.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 20 at 13:08









a CVn

6,54312446




6,54312446










answered Apr 18 at 14:37









Serge BallestaSerge Ballesta

17.8k33062




17.8k33062








  • 1





    "identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

    – Mazura
    Apr 19 at 0:35











  • There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

    – bob
    Apr 19 at 18:15














  • 1





    "identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

    – Mazura
    Apr 19 at 0:35











  • There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

    – bob
    Apr 19 at 18:15








1




1





"identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

– Mazura
Apr 19 at 0:35





"identity theft, a type of forgery wherein a person forges a writing in order to assume the identity of another, is a felony under federal law, punishable by a fine and many years' imprisonment." – criminaldefenselawyer.com. If you want to tangle with the FBI, go commit fraud somewhere. Bonus points if you mail it (a second federal offense) all but guaranteeing it will then be heard in a Federal court.

– Mazura
Apr 19 at 0:35













There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

– bob
Apr 19 at 18:15





There are digital signatures that involve some form of digitally signing a file, so they're not images but rather cryptographic digital signatures. These do seem to have legal standing.

– bob
Apr 19 at 18:15











8














Signatures have started out as an honor system: before widespread literacy, there was no realistic means of telling one X from another. They haven't come far since.



Currently, the only security measure is that ink signatures on paper can be analyzed by forensic document examiners to determine if a signature matches others produced by the person it's meant to identify. This requires physical access to the paper to examine the ink very closely.



Translating this to modern security concepts, there is no secret in the image of the signature. Rather, the image is public and simultaneously serves as a signature and a sample (certificate) for verifying other signatures by the same person. The secret or the private key is the exact sequence of strokes with the angle, velocity and pressure for each, required to produce the same imprint on paper.



These parameters and their distribution over each stroke are difficult to match manually and will usually differ enough for an expert to distinguish. Non-manual reproduction, be it by photocopy or facsimile, is much easier to detect.



Electronic tablets meant to capture handwritten signatures digitally also record and store these parameters, not just the image, in an attempt to provide similar protection. However, the current industry practice for this, at least in the largest vendor's implementation, relies on steganography rather than cryptography, rendering it insecure.






share|improve this answer


























  • nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

    – Charles Duffy
    Apr 18 at 14:59
















8














Signatures have started out as an honor system: before widespread literacy, there was no realistic means of telling one X from another. They haven't come far since.



Currently, the only security measure is that ink signatures on paper can be analyzed by forensic document examiners to determine if a signature matches others produced by the person it's meant to identify. This requires physical access to the paper to examine the ink very closely.



Translating this to modern security concepts, there is no secret in the image of the signature. Rather, the image is public and simultaneously serves as a signature and a sample (certificate) for verifying other signatures by the same person. The secret or the private key is the exact sequence of strokes with the angle, velocity and pressure for each, required to produce the same imprint on paper.



These parameters and their distribution over each stroke are difficult to match manually and will usually differ enough for an expert to distinguish. Non-manual reproduction, be it by photocopy or facsimile, is much easier to detect.



Electronic tablets meant to capture handwritten signatures digitally also record and store these parameters, not just the image, in an attempt to provide similar protection. However, the current industry practice for this, at least in the largest vendor's implementation, relies on steganography rather than cryptography, rendering it insecure.






share|improve this answer


























  • nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

    – Charles Duffy
    Apr 18 at 14:59














8












8








8







Signatures have started out as an honor system: before widespread literacy, there was no realistic means of telling one X from another. They haven't come far since.



Currently, the only security measure is that ink signatures on paper can be analyzed by forensic document examiners to determine if a signature matches others produced by the person it's meant to identify. This requires physical access to the paper to examine the ink very closely.



Translating this to modern security concepts, there is no secret in the image of the signature. Rather, the image is public and simultaneously serves as a signature and a sample (certificate) for verifying other signatures by the same person. The secret or the private key is the exact sequence of strokes with the angle, velocity and pressure for each, required to produce the same imprint on paper.



These parameters and their distribution over each stroke are difficult to match manually and will usually differ enough for an expert to distinguish. Non-manual reproduction, be it by photocopy or facsimile, is much easier to detect.



Electronic tablets meant to capture handwritten signatures digitally also record and store these parameters, not just the image, in an attempt to provide similar protection. However, the current industry practice for this, at least in the largest vendor's implementation, relies on steganography rather than cryptography, rendering it insecure.






share|improve this answer















Signatures have started out as an honor system: before widespread literacy, there was no realistic means of telling one X from another. They haven't come far since.



Currently, the only security measure is that ink signatures on paper can be analyzed by forensic document examiners to determine if a signature matches others produced by the person it's meant to identify. This requires physical access to the paper to examine the ink very closely.



Translating this to modern security concepts, there is no secret in the image of the signature. Rather, the image is public and simultaneously serves as a signature and a sample (certificate) for verifying other signatures by the same person. The secret or the private key is the exact sequence of strokes with the angle, velocity and pressure for each, required to produce the same imprint on paper.



These parameters and their distribution over each stroke are difficult to match manually and will usually differ enough for an expert to distinguish. Non-manual reproduction, be it by photocopy or facsimile, is much easier to detect.



Electronic tablets meant to capture handwritten signatures digitally also record and store these parameters, not just the image, in an attempt to provide similar protection. However, the current industry practice for this, at least in the largest vendor's implementation, relies on steganography rather than cryptography, rendering it insecure.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Apr 18 at 20:52

























answered Apr 18 at 7:23









TheracTherac

1,902511




1,902511













  • nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

    – Charles Duffy
    Apr 18 at 14:59



















  • nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

    – Charles Duffy
    Apr 18 at 14:59

















nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

– Charles Duffy
Apr 18 at 14:59





nod. One can get inks with deliberately unusual chemical characteristics -- the Warden's series from Noodler's is onesuch; as I understand it, they send a sample from each batch to the FBI lab that does forgery investigations... but honestly, almost anyone buying that ink is doing so knowing that it's more for their own personal satisfaction rather than as a safety feature that's likely to be of any practical use (except against the most old-school of cheque washers, with regard to whom the deliberate indifference to common solvents may be useful!)

– Charles Duffy
Apr 18 at 14:59











6














Anyone's signature on anything is subject to verification if challenged in court. Celebrities sometimes have assistants (or machines) sign photos for them. If someone presents them with a check or contract that they apparently signed, they can argue that their signature was duplicated without authorization and the other party has to prove otherwise.



There's even a system in place to avoid this entire problem. A notary public offers a service where they serve as an official, impartial witness for your signing of a document after verifying your identity. They keep a legal record of the event that can be used in court to confirm that a signature was genuine and proper. If a document is important enough that a forged signature is a real problem, then there will almost certainly be a requirement to have that signature notarized.






share|improve this answer
























  • Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

    – supercat
    Apr 19 at 22:41






  • 1





    @supercat They don't mark each page?

    – David Richerby
    Apr 19 at 23:12






  • 1





    Also what about evil notaries?

    – beppe9000
    Apr 20 at 15:32











  • @DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

    – supercat
    Apr 20 at 16:35






  • 1





    @beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

    – David Richerby
    Apr 20 at 17:00
















6














Anyone's signature on anything is subject to verification if challenged in court. Celebrities sometimes have assistants (or machines) sign photos for them. If someone presents them with a check or contract that they apparently signed, they can argue that their signature was duplicated without authorization and the other party has to prove otherwise.



There's even a system in place to avoid this entire problem. A notary public offers a service where they serve as an official, impartial witness for your signing of a document after verifying your identity. They keep a legal record of the event that can be used in court to confirm that a signature was genuine and proper. If a document is important enough that a forged signature is a real problem, then there will almost certainly be a requirement to have that signature notarized.






share|improve this answer
























  • Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

    – supercat
    Apr 19 at 22:41






  • 1





    @supercat They don't mark each page?

    – David Richerby
    Apr 19 at 23:12






  • 1





    Also what about evil notaries?

    – beppe9000
    Apr 20 at 15:32











  • @DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

    – supercat
    Apr 20 at 16:35






  • 1





    @beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

    – David Richerby
    Apr 20 at 17:00














6












6








6







Anyone's signature on anything is subject to verification if challenged in court. Celebrities sometimes have assistants (or machines) sign photos for them. If someone presents them with a check or contract that they apparently signed, they can argue that their signature was duplicated without authorization and the other party has to prove otherwise.



There's even a system in place to avoid this entire problem. A notary public offers a service where they serve as an official, impartial witness for your signing of a document after verifying your identity. They keep a legal record of the event that can be used in court to confirm that a signature was genuine and proper. If a document is important enough that a forged signature is a real problem, then there will almost certainly be a requirement to have that signature notarized.






share|improve this answer













Anyone's signature on anything is subject to verification if challenged in court. Celebrities sometimes have assistants (or machines) sign photos for them. If someone presents them with a check or contract that they apparently signed, they can argue that their signature was duplicated without authorization and the other party has to prove otherwise.



There's even a system in place to avoid this entire problem. A notary public offers a service where they serve as an official, impartial witness for your signing of a document after verifying your identity. They keep a legal record of the event that can be used in court to confirm that a signature was genuine and proper. If a document is important enough that a forged signature is a real problem, then there will almost certainly be a requirement to have that signature notarized.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Apr 19 at 2:23









btabta

34115




34115













  • Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

    – supercat
    Apr 19 at 22:41






  • 1





    @supercat They don't mark each page?

    – David Richerby
    Apr 19 at 23:12






  • 1





    Also what about evil notaries?

    – beppe9000
    Apr 20 at 15:32











  • @DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

    – supercat
    Apr 20 at 16:35






  • 1





    @beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

    – David Richerby
    Apr 20 at 17:00



















  • Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

    – supercat
    Apr 19 at 22:41






  • 1





    @supercat They don't mark each page?

    – David Richerby
    Apr 19 at 23:12






  • 1





    Also what about evil notaries?

    – beppe9000
    Apr 20 at 15:32











  • @DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

    – supercat
    Apr 20 at 16:35






  • 1





    @beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

    – David Richerby
    Apr 20 at 17:00

















Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

– supercat
Apr 19 at 22:41





Even notarized documents are to a large extent on the honor system since there is nothing to ensure that all of the pages that are present in the document at any particular point in time are the ones that were there when the document was notarized.

– supercat
Apr 19 at 22:41




1




1





@supercat They don't mark each page?

– David Richerby
Apr 19 at 23:12





@supercat They don't mark each page?

– David Richerby
Apr 19 at 23:12




1




1





Also what about evil notaries?

– beppe9000
Apr 20 at 15:32





Also what about evil notaries?

– beppe9000
Apr 20 at 15:32













@DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

– supercat
Apr 20 at 16:35





@DavidRicherby: I don't think I've ever seen a notary do anything with individual pages. I've sometimes been required to initial every page, but if initials were unforgeable there'd be no need for notaries.

– supercat
Apr 20 at 16:35




1




1





@beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

– David Richerby
Apr 20 at 17:00





@beppe9000 Is that where the word "notorious" comes from? *baddum-tsh*

– David Richerby
Apr 20 at 17:00


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Information Security Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fsecurity.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f207640%2fhow-do-living-politicians-protect-their-readily-obtainable-signatures-from-misus%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Færeyskur hestur Heimild | Tengill | Tilvísanir | LeiðsagnarvalRossið - síða um færeyska hrossið á færeyskuGott ár hjá færeyska hestinum

He _____ here since 1970 . Answer needed [closed]What does “since he was so high” mean?Meaning of “catch birds for”?How do I ensure “since” takes the meaning I want?“Who cares here” meaningWhat does “right round toward” mean?the time tense (had now been detected)What does the phrase “ring around the roses” mean here?Correct usage of “visited upon”Meaning of “foiled rail sabotage bid”It was the third time I had gone to Rome or It is the third time I had been to Rome

Slayer Innehåll Historia | Stil, komposition och lyrik | Bandets betydelse och framgångar | Sidoprojekt och samarbeten | Kontroverser | Medlemmar | Utmärkelser och nomineringar | Turnéer och festivaler | Diskografi | Referenser | Externa länkar | Navigeringsmenywww.slayer.net”Metal Massacre vol. 1””Metal Massacre vol. 3””Metal Massacre Volume III””Show No Mercy””Haunting the Chapel””Live Undead””Hell Awaits””Reign in Blood””Reign in Blood””Gold & Platinum – Reign in Blood””Golden Gods Awards Winners”originalet”Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Looks Back On 37-Year Career In New Video Series: Part Two””South of Heaven””Gold & Platinum – South of Heaven””Seasons in the Abyss””Gold & Platinum - Seasons in the Abyss””Divine Intervention””Divine Intervention - Release group by Slayer””Gold & Platinum - Divine Intervention””Live Intrusion””Undisputed Attitude””Abolish Government/Superficial Love””Release “Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer” by Various Artists””Diabolus in Musica””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””God Hates Us All””Systematic - Relationships””War at the Warfield””Gold & Platinum - War at the Warfield””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””Gold & Platinum - Still Reigning””Metallica, Slayer, Iron Mauden Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Eternal Pyre””Eternal Pyre - Slayer release group””Eternal Pyre””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Bullet-For My Valentine booed at Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Unholy Aliance””The End Of Slayer?””Slayer: We Could Thrash Out Two More Albums If We're Fast Enough...””'The Unholy Alliance: Chapter III' UK Dates Added”originalet”Megadeth And Slayer To Co-Headline 'Canadian Carnage' Trek”originalet”World Painted Blood””Release “World Painted Blood” by Slayer””Metallica Heading To Cinemas””Slayer, Megadeth To Join Forces For 'European Carnage' Tour - Dec. 18, 2010”originalet”Slayer's Hanneman Contracts Acute Infection; Band To Bring In Guest Guitarist””Cannibal Corpse's Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer's Guest Guitarist”originalet”Slayer’s Jeff Hanneman Dead at 49””Dave Lombardo Says He Made Only $67,000 In 2011 While Touring With Slayer””Slayer: We Do Not Agree With Dave Lombardo's Substance Or Timeline Of Events””Slayer Welcomes Drummer Paul Bostaph Back To The Fold””Slayer Hope to Unveil Never-Before-Heard Jeff Hanneman Material on Next Album””Slayer Debut New Song 'Implode' During Surprise Golden Gods Appearance””Release group Repentless by Slayer””Repentless - Slayer - Credits””Slayer””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer - to release comic book "Repentless #1"””Slayer To Release 'Repentless' 6.66" Vinyl Box Set””BREAKING NEWS: Slayer Announce Farewell Tour””Slayer Recruit Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth + Testament for Final Tour””Slayer lägger ner efter 37 år””Slayer Announces Second North American Leg Of 'Final' Tour””Final World Tour””Slayer Announces Final European Tour With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Tour Europe With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Play 'Last French Show Ever' At Next Year's Hellfst””Slayer's Final World Tour Will Extend Into 2019””Death Angel's Rob Cavestany On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour: 'Some Of Us Could See This Coming'””Testament Has No Plans To Retire Anytime Soon, Says Chuck Billy””Anthrax's Scott Ian On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour Plans: 'I Was Surprised And I Wasn't Surprised'””Slayer””Slayer's Morbid Schlock””Review/Rock; For Slayer, the Mania Is the Message””Slayer - Biography””Slayer - Reign In Blood”originalet”Dave Lombardo””An exclusive oral history of Slayer”originalet”Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman”originalet”Thinking Out Loud: Slayer's Kerry King on hair metal, Satan and being polite””Slayer Lyrics””Slayer - Biography””Most influential artists for extreme metal music””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dies aged 49””Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer””Gateway to Hell: A Tribute to Slayer””Covered In Blood””Slayer: The Origins of Thrash in San Francisco, CA.””Why They Rule - #6 Slayer”originalet”Guitar World's 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All Time”originalet”The fans have spoken: Slayer comes out on top in readers' polls”originalet”Tribute to Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)””Lamb Of God Frontman: We Sound Like A Slayer Rip-Off””BEHEMOTH Frontman Pays Tribute To SLAYER's JEFF HANNEMAN””Slayer, Hatebreed Doing Double Duty On This Year's Ozzfest””System of a Down””Lacuna Coil’s Andrea Ferro Talks Influences, Skateboarding, Band Origins + More””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Into The Lungs of Hell””Slayer rules - en utställning om fans””Slayer and Their Fans Slashed Through a No-Holds-Barred Night at Gas Monkey””Home””Slayer””Gold & Platinum - The Big 4 Live from Sofia, Bulgaria””Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Kerry King””2008-02-23: Wiltern, Los Angeles, CA, USA””Slayer's Kerry King To Perform With Megadeth Tonight! - Oct. 21, 2010”originalet”Dave Lombardo - Biography”Slayer Case DismissedArkiveradUltimate Classic Rock: Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dead at 49.”Slayer: "We could never do any thing like Some Kind Of Monster..."””Cannibal Corpse'S Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer'S Guest Guitarist | The Official Slayer Site”originalet”Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Kerrang! Awards 2006 Blog: Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Kerrang! Awards 2013: Kerrang! Legend”originalet”Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maien Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Bullet For My Valentine Booed At Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer's Concert History””Slayer - Relationships””Slayer - Releases”Slayers officiella webbplatsSlayer på MusicBrainzOfficiell webbplatsSlayerSlayerr1373445760000 0001 1540 47353068615-5086262726cb13906545x(data)6033143kn20030215029