What is the origin of “to lie through one's teeth”?
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I read the origins of this saying are quite old:
"...traceable to the early 1300's as in THE ROMANCES OF SIR GUY OF WARWICK,"
According to this: https://www.englishforums.com/English/EtymologyThroughTeeth/jhphl/post.htm
Did this apparently obscure reference serve as the source of the saying, or was it defined earlier and then used in this text?
Bonus question: Does lying through the teeth imply with a smile?
etymology phrase-meaning
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
add a comment |
I read the origins of this saying are quite old:
"...traceable to the early 1300's as in THE ROMANCES OF SIR GUY OF WARWICK,"
According to this: https://www.englishforums.com/English/EtymologyThroughTeeth/jhphl/post.htm
Did this apparently obscure reference serve as the source of the saying, or was it defined earlier and then used in this text?
Bonus question: Does lying through the teeth imply with a smile?
etymology phrase-meaning
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
1
It'a trivial allusion to gritting/clenching one's teeth when doing something that's somewhat distasteful. But obviously practiced liars eventually stop finding it distasteful, and the people who're being deceived aren't usually interested in "excusing" a liar who still has moral qualms anyway, so that part of it can often be forgotten.
– FumbleFingers
Dec 3 '15 at 18:27
In reference to your "bonus question", IMO, I do believe that smiling is implied when one is lying through their teeth. A gritting or clenching, as FF mentioned, would not be good for the liar as it might tip their hand whereas a relaxed, smiling person might appear more honest.
– Kristina Lopez
Dec 3 '15 at 19:28
add a comment |
I read the origins of this saying are quite old:
"...traceable to the early 1300's as in THE ROMANCES OF SIR GUY OF WARWICK,"
According to this: https://www.englishforums.com/English/EtymologyThroughTeeth/jhphl/post.htm
Did this apparently obscure reference serve as the source of the saying, or was it defined earlier and then used in this text?
Bonus question: Does lying through the teeth imply with a smile?
etymology phrase-meaning
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
I read the origins of this saying are quite old:
"...traceable to the early 1300's as in THE ROMANCES OF SIR GUY OF WARWICK,"
According to this: https://www.englishforums.com/English/EtymologyThroughTeeth/jhphl/post.htm
Did this apparently obscure reference serve as the source of the saying, or was it defined earlier and then used in this text?
Bonus question: Does lying through the teeth imply with a smile?
etymology phrase-meaning
etymology phrase-meaning
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
asked Dec 3 '15 at 18:05
MinnowMinnow
2,19221841
2,19221841
1
It'a trivial allusion to gritting/clenching one's teeth when doing something that's somewhat distasteful. But obviously practiced liars eventually stop finding it distasteful, and the people who're being deceived aren't usually interested in "excusing" a liar who still has moral qualms anyway, so that part of it can often be forgotten.
– FumbleFingers
Dec 3 '15 at 18:27
In reference to your "bonus question", IMO, I do believe that smiling is implied when one is lying through their teeth. A gritting or clenching, as FF mentioned, would not be good for the liar as it might tip their hand whereas a relaxed, smiling person might appear more honest.
– Kristina Lopez
Dec 3 '15 at 19:28
add a comment |
1
It'a trivial allusion to gritting/clenching one's teeth when doing something that's somewhat distasteful. But obviously practiced liars eventually stop finding it distasteful, and the people who're being deceived aren't usually interested in "excusing" a liar who still has moral qualms anyway, so that part of it can often be forgotten.
– FumbleFingers
Dec 3 '15 at 18:27
In reference to your "bonus question", IMO, I do believe that smiling is implied when one is lying through their teeth. A gritting or clenching, as FF mentioned, would not be good for the liar as it might tip their hand whereas a relaxed, smiling person might appear more honest.
– Kristina Lopez
Dec 3 '15 at 19:28
1
1
It'a trivial allusion to gritting/clenching one's teeth when doing something that's somewhat distasteful. But obviously practiced liars eventually stop finding it distasteful, and the people who're being deceived aren't usually interested in "excusing" a liar who still has moral qualms anyway, so that part of it can often be forgotten.
– FumbleFingers
Dec 3 '15 at 18:27
It'a trivial allusion to gritting/clenching one's teeth when doing something that's somewhat distasteful. But obviously practiced liars eventually stop finding it distasteful, and the people who're being deceived aren't usually interested in "excusing" a liar who still has moral qualms anyway, so that part of it can often be forgotten.
– FumbleFingers
Dec 3 '15 at 18:27
In reference to your "bonus question", IMO, I do believe that smiling is implied when one is lying through their teeth. A gritting or clenching, as FF mentioned, would not be good for the liar as it might tip their hand whereas a relaxed, smiling person might appear more honest.
– Kristina Lopez
Dec 3 '15 at 19:28
In reference to your "bonus question", IMO, I do believe that smiling is implied when one is lying through their teeth. A gritting or clenching, as FF mentioned, would not be good for the liar as it might tip their hand whereas a relaxed, smiling person might appear more honest.
– Kristina Lopez
Dec 3 '15 at 19:28
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
According to The Phrase Finder the expression might be a variant of a similar expression which dates back to the 14th century and adds: "the OED mentions lying "in his teeth," but without any further information":
Lie in one's teeth:
"To accuse a person of lying in his teeth is the strongest of accusations, implying that the person is such a double-dyed liar as to be unfamiliar with truth.
It is very old traceable to the early 1300s, as in 'The romances of Sir Guy of Warwick,' 'Thou liest amidward and therefore have though maugreth (shown ill will).'"
(From "Hog on Ice & Other Curious Expressions" (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk.)
The following source:
- cites a usage example of "lie in his teeth" from the "History of New York" (1812) while the first documented usage of 'lie through one's teeth' is from the novel "love me or love me not" by Mrs. Francis G. Faithfull (1875).
(Idioms in the News - 1,000 Phrases)
Ngram: lying through his teeth vs lying in his teeth.
As for your second question, "Poplollies & Bellibones/Tenderfeet & Ladyfingers: A Celebration of Lost Words/A Compendium of Body Language", suggests that lying through one's teeth implies a (deceiving) smile:
- A person known to lie through his teeth has no compunction about telling falsehoods. But why through his teeth? The liar has to force himself to assume the calm demeanor that will conceal his duplicity. He attempts a hearty smile,.....
add a comment |
Not a linguist myself but I speak French and that could tip some directions of investigation. The etymology may well come from much before 1300 like 15% of the English words coming from the French spoken at court after the Normand invasions.
In France when someone lies blatantly he is said to lie like a teeth puller:
"mentir comme un arracheur de dents".
Clearly coming from the lies people had to resort to when needing to remove the tooth of their loved ones. The issue with that would be when in history did Europeans start knowing that removing a tooth could be useful.
As French is just a bastardize version of Latin (and as I don't speak Latin) I've googled the equivalent expressions in Spanish and Italian but not such expression is commonly used.
My intuition is either what you wrote above is correct or it may come from a wrong translation of a French set expression into English rather than latin.
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
According to The Phrase Finder the expression might be a variant of a similar expression which dates back to the 14th century and adds: "the OED mentions lying "in his teeth," but without any further information":
Lie in one's teeth:
"To accuse a person of lying in his teeth is the strongest of accusations, implying that the person is such a double-dyed liar as to be unfamiliar with truth.
It is very old traceable to the early 1300s, as in 'The romances of Sir Guy of Warwick,' 'Thou liest amidward and therefore have though maugreth (shown ill will).'"
(From "Hog on Ice & Other Curious Expressions" (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk.)
The following source:
- cites a usage example of "lie in his teeth" from the "History of New York" (1812) while the first documented usage of 'lie through one's teeth' is from the novel "love me or love me not" by Mrs. Francis G. Faithfull (1875).
(Idioms in the News - 1,000 Phrases)
Ngram: lying through his teeth vs lying in his teeth.
As for your second question, "Poplollies & Bellibones/Tenderfeet & Ladyfingers: A Celebration of Lost Words/A Compendium of Body Language", suggests that lying through one's teeth implies a (deceiving) smile:
- A person known to lie through his teeth has no compunction about telling falsehoods. But why through his teeth? The liar has to force himself to assume the calm demeanor that will conceal his duplicity. He attempts a hearty smile,.....
add a comment |
According to The Phrase Finder the expression might be a variant of a similar expression which dates back to the 14th century and adds: "the OED mentions lying "in his teeth," but without any further information":
Lie in one's teeth:
"To accuse a person of lying in his teeth is the strongest of accusations, implying that the person is such a double-dyed liar as to be unfamiliar with truth.
It is very old traceable to the early 1300s, as in 'The romances of Sir Guy of Warwick,' 'Thou liest amidward and therefore have though maugreth (shown ill will).'"
(From "Hog on Ice & Other Curious Expressions" (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk.)
The following source:
- cites a usage example of "lie in his teeth" from the "History of New York" (1812) while the first documented usage of 'lie through one's teeth' is from the novel "love me or love me not" by Mrs. Francis G. Faithfull (1875).
(Idioms in the News - 1,000 Phrases)
Ngram: lying through his teeth vs lying in his teeth.
As for your second question, "Poplollies & Bellibones/Tenderfeet & Ladyfingers: A Celebration of Lost Words/A Compendium of Body Language", suggests that lying through one's teeth implies a (deceiving) smile:
- A person known to lie through his teeth has no compunction about telling falsehoods. But why through his teeth? The liar has to force himself to assume the calm demeanor that will conceal his duplicity. He attempts a hearty smile,.....
add a comment |
According to The Phrase Finder the expression might be a variant of a similar expression which dates back to the 14th century and adds: "the OED mentions lying "in his teeth," but without any further information":
Lie in one's teeth:
"To accuse a person of lying in his teeth is the strongest of accusations, implying that the person is such a double-dyed liar as to be unfamiliar with truth.
It is very old traceable to the early 1300s, as in 'The romances of Sir Guy of Warwick,' 'Thou liest amidward and therefore have though maugreth (shown ill will).'"
(From "Hog on Ice & Other Curious Expressions" (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk.)
The following source:
- cites a usage example of "lie in his teeth" from the "History of New York" (1812) while the first documented usage of 'lie through one's teeth' is from the novel "love me or love me not" by Mrs. Francis G. Faithfull (1875).
(Idioms in the News - 1,000 Phrases)
Ngram: lying through his teeth vs lying in his teeth.
As for your second question, "Poplollies & Bellibones/Tenderfeet & Ladyfingers: A Celebration of Lost Words/A Compendium of Body Language", suggests that lying through one's teeth implies a (deceiving) smile:
- A person known to lie through his teeth has no compunction about telling falsehoods. But why through his teeth? The liar has to force himself to assume the calm demeanor that will conceal his duplicity. He attempts a hearty smile,.....
According to The Phrase Finder the expression might be a variant of a similar expression which dates back to the 14th century and adds: "the OED mentions lying "in his teeth," but without any further information":
Lie in one's teeth:
"To accuse a person of lying in his teeth is the strongest of accusations, implying that the person is such a double-dyed liar as to be unfamiliar with truth.
It is very old traceable to the early 1300s, as in 'The romances of Sir Guy of Warwick,' 'Thou liest amidward and therefore have though maugreth (shown ill will).'"
(From "Hog on Ice & Other Curious Expressions" (1948, Harper & Row) by Charles Earle Funk.)
The following source:
- cites a usage example of "lie in his teeth" from the "History of New York" (1812) while the first documented usage of 'lie through one's teeth' is from the novel "love me or love me not" by Mrs. Francis G. Faithfull (1875).
(Idioms in the News - 1,000 Phrases)
Ngram: lying through his teeth vs lying in his teeth.
As for your second question, "Poplollies & Bellibones/Tenderfeet & Ladyfingers: A Celebration of Lost Words/A Compendium of Body Language", suggests that lying through one's teeth implies a (deceiving) smile:
- A person known to lie through his teeth has no compunction about telling falsehoods. But why through his teeth? The liar has to force himself to assume the calm demeanor that will conceal his duplicity. He attempts a hearty smile,.....
edited Dec 4 '15 at 0:35
answered Dec 3 '15 at 19:33
user66974
add a comment |
add a comment |
Not a linguist myself but I speak French and that could tip some directions of investigation. The etymology may well come from much before 1300 like 15% of the English words coming from the French spoken at court after the Normand invasions.
In France when someone lies blatantly he is said to lie like a teeth puller:
"mentir comme un arracheur de dents".
Clearly coming from the lies people had to resort to when needing to remove the tooth of their loved ones. The issue with that would be when in history did Europeans start knowing that removing a tooth could be useful.
As French is just a bastardize version of Latin (and as I don't speak Latin) I've googled the equivalent expressions in Spanish and Italian but not such expression is commonly used.
My intuition is either what you wrote above is correct or it may come from a wrong translation of a French set expression into English rather than latin.
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
add a comment |
Not a linguist myself but I speak French and that could tip some directions of investigation. The etymology may well come from much before 1300 like 15% of the English words coming from the French spoken at court after the Normand invasions.
In France when someone lies blatantly he is said to lie like a teeth puller:
"mentir comme un arracheur de dents".
Clearly coming from the lies people had to resort to when needing to remove the tooth of their loved ones. The issue with that would be when in history did Europeans start knowing that removing a tooth could be useful.
As French is just a bastardize version of Latin (and as I don't speak Latin) I've googled the equivalent expressions in Spanish and Italian but not such expression is commonly used.
My intuition is either what you wrote above is correct or it may come from a wrong translation of a French set expression into English rather than latin.
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
add a comment |
Not a linguist myself but I speak French and that could tip some directions of investigation. The etymology may well come from much before 1300 like 15% of the English words coming from the French spoken at court after the Normand invasions.
In France when someone lies blatantly he is said to lie like a teeth puller:
"mentir comme un arracheur de dents".
Clearly coming from the lies people had to resort to when needing to remove the tooth of their loved ones. The issue with that would be when in history did Europeans start knowing that removing a tooth could be useful.
As French is just a bastardize version of Latin (and as I don't speak Latin) I've googled the equivalent expressions in Spanish and Italian but not such expression is commonly used.
My intuition is either what you wrote above is correct or it may come from a wrong translation of a French set expression into English rather than latin.
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
Not a linguist myself but I speak French and that could tip some directions of investigation. The etymology may well come from much before 1300 like 15% of the English words coming from the French spoken at court after the Normand invasions.
In France when someone lies blatantly he is said to lie like a teeth puller:
"mentir comme un arracheur de dents".
Clearly coming from the lies people had to resort to when needing to remove the tooth of their loved ones. The issue with that would be when in history did Europeans start knowing that removing a tooth could be useful.
As French is just a bastardize version of Latin (and as I don't speak Latin) I've googled the equivalent expressions in Spanish and Italian but not such expression is commonly used.
My intuition is either what you wrote above is correct or it may come from a wrong translation of a French set expression into English rather than latin.
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
edited Oct 21 '17 at 10:35
NVZ
21k1460110
21k1460110
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
answered Oct 21 '17 at 9:22
Inco GnitoInco Gnito
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
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It'a trivial allusion to gritting/clenching one's teeth when doing something that's somewhat distasteful. But obviously practiced liars eventually stop finding it distasteful, and the people who're being deceived aren't usually interested in "excusing" a liar who still has moral qualms anyway, so that part of it can often be forgotten.
– FumbleFingers
Dec 3 '15 at 18:27
In reference to your "bonus question", IMO, I do believe that smiling is implied when one is lying through their teeth. A gritting or clenching, as FF mentioned, would not be good for the liar as it might tip their hand whereas a relaxed, smiling person might appear more honest.
– Kristina Lopez
Dec 3 '15 at 19:28