Would cybernetic implants allow humans to use biofeedback to boost their performance to superhuman levels? If...





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







8












$begingroup$


So I was surfing this website which gives rpg stats for various fictional characters in various media, when I came across this character called "The Frenchman" who apparently uses biofeedback to boost his performance to superhuman levels. As the site points out:




Biofeedback is using tech to monitor certain biological indicators such as an ECG, then using concentration exercises to change those. It is primarily explored to compensate for damaged biological functions.




Which was interesting to me and made me wonder, what if we implanted the tech used to monitior these biological functions via cybernetic implants?



We already have similiar devices like pacemakers artificial pancreas
Or outright replacing organs like kidnies



How far could we take it? Why type of implants are possible to give us full self'control of our biological functions? Would we be able to perform superhuman feats like the Frenchman?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. Building a bit on Tim's answer: While "biofeedback" has a medical meaning, it also has silly meanings. I remember "biofeedback" arcade machines when I was a kid, they'd print out the "high tech" version of a fortune cookie. The unfortunate consequence is that the word is basically technobabble.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 7:58




















8












$begingroup$


So I was surfing this website which gives rpg stats for various fictional characters in various media, when I came across this character called "The Frenchman" who apparently uses biofeedback to boost his performance to superhuman levels. As the site points out:




Biofeedback is using tech to monitor certain biological indicators such as an ECG, then using concentration exercises to change those. It is primarily explored to compensate for damaged biological functions.




Which was interesting to me and made me wonder, what if we implanted the tech used to monitior these biological functions via cybernetic implants?



We already have similiar devices like pacemakers artificial pancreas
Or outright replacing organs like kidnies



How far could we take it? Why type of implants are possible to give us full self'control of our biological functions? Would we be able to perform superhuman feats like the Frenchman?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$










  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. Building a bit on Tim's answer: While "biofeedback" has a medical meaning, it also has silly meanings. I remember "biofeedback" arcade machines when I was a kid, they'd print out the "high tech" version of a fortune cookie. The unfortunate consequence is that the word is basically technobabble.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 7:58
















8












8








8





$begingroup$


So I was surfing this website which gives rpg stats for various fictional characters in various media, when I came across this character called "The Frenchman" who apparently uses biofeedback to boost his performance to superhuman levels. As the site points out:




Biofeedback is using tech to monitor certain biological indicators such as an ECG, then using concentration exercises to change those. It is primarily explored to compensate for damaged biological functions.




Which was interesting to me and made me wonder, what if we implanted the tech used to monitior these biological functions via cybernetic implants?



We already have similiar devices like pacemakers artificial pancreas
Or outright replacing organs like kidnies



How far could we take it? Why type of implants are possible to give us full self'control of our biological functions? Would we be able to perform superhuman feats like the Frenchman?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




So I was surfing this website which gives rpg stats for various fictional characters in various media, when I came across this character called "The Frenchman" who apparently uses biofeedback to boost his performance to superhuman levels. As the site points out:




Biofeedback is using tech to monitor certain biological indicators such as an ECG, then using concentration exercises to change those. It is primarily explored to compensate for damaged biological functions.




Which was interesting to me and made me wonder, what if we implanted the tech used to monitior these biological functions via cybernetic implants?



We already have similiar devices like pacemakers artificial pancreas
Or outright replacing organs like kidnies



How far could we take it? Why type of implants are possible to give us full self'control of our biological functions? Would we be able to perform superhuman feats like the Frenchman?







reality-check cybernetics






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited May 21 at 6:27









Tim B II

38.6k6 gold badges83 silver badges153 bronze badges




38.6k6 gold badges83 silver badges153 bronze badges










asked May 20 at 6:48









Jacob BlausteinJacob Blaustein

1412 bronze badges




1412 bronze badges











  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. Building a bit on Tim's answer: While "biofeedback" has a medical meaning, it also has silly meanings. I remember "biofeedback" arcade machines when I was a kid, they'd print out the "high tech" version of a fortune cookie. The unfortunate consequence is that the word is basically technobabble.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 7:58
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. Building a bit on Tim's answer: While "biofeedback" has a medical meaning, it also has silly meanings. I remember "biofeedback" arcade machines when I was a kid, they'd print out the "high tech" version of a fortune cookie. The unfortunate consequence is that the word is basically technobabble.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 7:58










1




1




$begingroup$
Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. Building a bit on Tim's answer: While "biofeedback" has a medical meaning, it also has silly meanings. I remember "biofeedback" arcade machines when I was a kid, they'd print out the "high tech" version of a fortune cookie. The unfortunate consequence is that the word is basically technobabble.
$endgroup$
– JBH
May 20 at 7:58






$begingroup$
Welcome to Worldbuilding.SE! We're glad you could join us! When you have a moment, please click here to learn more about our culture and take our tour. Building a bit on Tim's answer: While "biofeedback" has a medical meaning, it also has silly meanings. I remember "biofeedback" arcade machines when I was a kid, they'd print out the "high tech" version of a fortune cookie. The unfortunate consequence is that the word is basically technobabble.
$endgroup$
– JBH
May 20 at 7:58












2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















19












$begingroup$

No.



The reason why human athletic levels are where they are have nothing to do with control and everything to do with tolerances. This is actually a similar reason to why being in a car accident or falling off a cliff is so dangerous; the human body is not designed to go at those speeds or 'jump' that high. For one thing, our bones are designed to be strong but still relatively light. They support us perfectly well in running, jumping, dancing, lifting some heavy things, but they can't take stresses that occur at driving speeds or from falling off high buildings or cliffs.



The same is true of your tendons; they are designed to hold your muscles to your skeleton and in normal use are more than up to the task. But, try to lift a car and assuming you get it up, there's a very strong chance that you'll tear a ligament. Athletes are constantly doing this and anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) tears are a common injury that they suffer even now.



Your Frenchmen won't be able to run super long endurance events like 10x marathon distances because this requires extra energy that has to be stored somewhere in the body and released in a constant manner to the active muscles and there's some evidence to say that even regular marathons can be damaging to a body over the long term because of the way the body stores and supplies energy.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to run sprints in a tenth of the time Usain Bolt can do it because the muscles can only twitch so fast and accelerating that, even if possible, is only likely to tear the aforementioned ligaments; essentially the muscles would tear themselves off the bones.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to lift cars or jump buildings or the like because the skeleton won't be strong enough to support the weight or take the impact of landing. Alright, that's not strictly true; it may be able to do it for a while but the price you're going to pay is that your body is going to give out a lot earlier than it otherwise would.



Even tradesmen and athletes today, without emulating super powers, suffer from a range of health problems in their later life. Many have worn cartilage, joint (especially knee) issues, arthritis and a stream of other wear to their bodies that limit their ability to perform basic tasks in their later years.



Put simply, your Frenchman still has a standard body that can only be pushed so far in its lifetime, regardless of how much control you may have over it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$











  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 8:01












  • $begingroup$
    @JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
    $endgroup$
    – Delioth
    May 20 at 15:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
    $endgroup$
    – Jared Smith
    May 20 at 16:24






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B II
    May 20 at 22:51










  • $begingroup$
    I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    May 21 at 6:30



















2












$begingroup$

I would assume that "superhuman" means "one that cannot be achieved by humans without supply of performance enhancers".

Because that what those implants would be. First remove that such implants would release hormones ON THEIR OWN. But they could stimulate release of such by owners body. Because you can always supply such with a needle and syringe and you don't need to implant anything to do that.

So in terms of power/strength/endurance those implants would work slightly worse than injections BUT much faster. Monitoring of "wearer" body stats would stimulate hormones at best times, giving most efficient training in best window. It could also provide exact feedback to maintain best performance. For example "right now eat exactly 50g of carbs to replenish glycogen in muscles for peak performance for 30 minutes".

No more guessing, trial and error kind of stuff.



But even with those some feats wouldn't be available without proper, long-term training. So if Frenchman muscles don't have the power to rip arm out of the socket it wouldn't be possible with implants. And I'm talking about "maximum power with adrenaline rush".

What does implants could do is stimulate that adrenaline rush on demand. Block "flight" part of "fight or flight", block pain receptors or intercept pain signals but find workaround for disabled parts of body. So to use secondary muscles if primary is damaged. Or to use some muscles exclusively to support broken bones while maintaining highest level of movability.



So in terms of "how much power/strength" such implants could provide the answer is "similar to taking steroids or SARMS (in long-time)".

In "how much endurance" such implants could provide the answer is "as much needed or until wearer dies".

You need to remember that pain is a biofeedback. If you ignore it you end up hurting yourself more than it's needed. There are stories about marathoners that had broken all bones in their feet's because they ignored the pain "there is nothing cushioning your feet". There are examples of strongmen ripping their muscles/hamstrings doing lifts they done in safe gym environment. Look at latest Arnold Classic. On 10 contenders 2 of them received injuries. Brian Shawn tried to compete with one but his performance was sub par.



If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus. Artificial pancreas is (in very simplified terms) injections of insulin. Something people do manually everyday. Just like everyday they inject themselves with growth hormone. So instead of carrying syringe with hormone you have it sewed in your body.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    "If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
    $endgroup$
    – Jacob Blaustein
    May 21 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    @JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
    $endgroup$
    – SZCZERZO KŁY
    May 22 at 7:28














Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "579"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f147347%2fwould-cybernetic-implants-allow-humans-to-use-biofeedback-to-boost-their-perform%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









19












$begingroup$

No.



The reason why human athletic levels are where they are have nothing to do with control and everything to do with tolerances. This is actually a similar reason to why being in a car accident or falling off a cliff is so dangerous; the human body is not designed to go at those speeds or 'jump' that high. For one thing, our bones are designed to be strong but still relatively light. They support us perfectly well in running, jumping, dancing, lifting some heavy things, but they can't take stresses that occur at driving speeds or from falling off high buildings or cliffs.



The same is true of your tendons; they are designed to hold your muscles to your skeleton and in normal use are more than up to the task. But, try to lift a car and assuming you get it up, there's a very strong chance that you'll tear a ligament. Athletes are constantly doing this and anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) tears are a common injury that they suffer even now.



Your Frenchmen won't be able to run super long endurance events like 10x marathon distances because this requires extra energy that has to be stored somewhere in the body and released in a constant manner to the active muscles and there's some evidence to say that even regular marathons can be damaging to a body over the long term because of the way the body stores and supplies energy.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to run sprints in a tenth of the time Usain Bolt can do it because the muscles can only twitch so fast and accelerating that, even if possible, is only likely to tear the aforementioned ligaments; essentially the muscles would tear themselves off the bones.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to lift cars or jump buildings or the like because the skeleton won't be strong enough to support the weight or take the impact of landing. Alright, that's not strictly true; it may be able to do it for a while but the price you're going to pay is that your body is going to give out a lot earlier than it otherwise would.



Even tradesmen and athletes today, without emulating super powers, suffer from a range of health problems in their later life. Many have worn cartilage, joint (especially knee) issues, arthritis and a stream of other wear to their bodies that limit their ability to perform basic tasks in their later years.



Put simply, your Frenchman still has a standard body that can only be pushed so far in its lifetime, regardless of how much control you may have over it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$











  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 8:01












  • $begingroup$
    @JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
    $endgroup$
    – Delioth
    May 20 at 15:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
    $endgroup$
    – Jared Smith
    May 20 at 16:24






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B II
    May 20 at 22:51










  • $begingroup$
    I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    May 21 at 6:30
















19












$begingroup$

No.



The reason why human athletic levels are where they are have nothing to do with control and everything to do with tolerances. This is actually a similar reason to why being in a car accident or falling off a cliff is so dangerous; the human body is not designed to go at those speeds or 'jump' that high. For one thing, our bones are designed to be strong but still relatively light. They support us perfectly well in running, jumping, dancing, lifting some heavy things, but they can't take stresses that occur at driving speeds or from falling off high buildings or cliffs.



The same is true of your tendons; they are designed to hold your muscles to your skeleton and in normal use are more than up to the task. But, try to lift a car and assuming you get it up, there's a very strong chance that you'll tear a ligament. Athletes are constantly doing this and anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) tears are a common injury that they suffer even now.



Your Frenchmen won't be able to run super long endurance events like 10x marathon distances because this requires extra energy that has to be stored somewhere in the body and released in a constant manner to the active muscles and there's some evidence to say that even regular marathons can be damaging to a body over the long term because of the way the body stores and supplies energy.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to run sprints in a tenth of the time Usain Bolt can do it because the muscles can only twitch so fast and accelerating that, even if possible, is only likely to tear the aforementioned ligaments; essentially the muscles would tear themselves off the bones.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to lift cars or jump buildings or the like because the skeleton won't be strong enough to support the weight or take the impact of landing. Alright, that's not strictly true; it may be able to do it for a while but the price you're going to pay is that your body is going to give out a lot earlier than it otherwise would.



Even tradesmen and athletes today, without emulating super powers, suffer from a range of health problems in their later life. Many have worn cartilage, joint (especially knee) issues, arthritis and a stream of other wear to their bodies that limit their ability to perform basic tasks in their later years.



Put simply, your Frenchman still has a standard body that can only be pushed so far in its lifetime, regardless of how much control you may have over it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$











  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 8:01












  • $begingroup$
    @JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
    $endgroup$
    – Delioth
    May 20 at 15:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
    $endgroup$
    – Jared Smith
    May 20 at 16:24






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B II
    May 20 at 22:51










  • $begingroup$
    I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    May 21 at 6:30














19












19








19





$begingroup$

No.



The reason why human athletic levels are where they are have nothing to do with control and everything to do with tolerances. This is actually a similar reason to why being in a car accident or falling off a cliff is so dangerous; the human body is not designed to go at those speeds or 'jump' that high. For one thing, our bones are designed to be strong but still relatively light. They support us perfectly well in running, jumping, dancing, lifting some heavy things, but they can't take stresses that occur at driving speeds or from falling off high buildings or cliffs.



The same is true of your tendons; they are designed to hold your muscles to your skeleton and in normal use are more than up to the task. But, try to lift a car and assuming you get it up, there's a very strong chance that you'll tear a ligament. Athletes are constantly doing this and anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) tears are a common injury that they suffer even now.



Your Frenchmen won't be able to run super long endurance events like 10x marathon distances because this requires extra energy that has to be stored somewhere in the body and released in a constant manner to the active muscles and there's some evidence to say that even regular marathons can be damaging to a body over the long term because of the way the body stores and supplies energy.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to run sprints in a tenth of the time Usain Bolt can do it because the muscles can only twitch so fast and accelerating that, even if possible, is only likely to tear the aforementioned ligaments; essentially the muscles would tear themselves off the bones.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to lift cars or jump buildings or the like because the skeleton won't be strong enough to support the weight or take the impact of landing. Alright, that's not strictly true; it may be able to do it for a while but the price you're going to pay is that your body is going to give out a lot earlier than it otherwise would.



Even tradesmen and athletes today, without emulating super powers, suffer from a range of health problems in their later life. Many have worn cartilage, joint (especially knee) issues, arthritis and a stream of other wear to their bodies that limit their ability to perform basic tasks in their later years.



Put simply, your Frenchman still has a standard body that can only be pushed so far in its lifetime, regardless of how much control you may have over it.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



No.



The reason why human athletic levels are where they are have nothing to do with control and everything to do with tolerances. This is actually a similar reason to why being in a car accident or falling off a cliff is so dangerous; the human body is not designed to go at those speeds or 'jump' that high. For one thing, our bones are designed to be strong but still relatively light. They support us perfectly well in running, jumping, dancing, lifting some heavy things, but they can't take stresses that occur at driving speeds or from falling off high buildings or cliffs.



The same is true of your tendons; they are designed to hold your muscles to your skeleton and in normal use are more than up to the task. But, try to lift a car and assuming you get it up, there's a very strong chance that you'll tear a ligament. Athletes are constantly doing this and anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) tears are a common injury that they suffer even now.



Your Frenchmen won't be able to run super long endurance events like 10x marathon distances because this requires extra energy that has to be stored somewhere in the body and released in a constant manner to the active muscles and there's some evidence to say that even regular marathons can be damaging to a body over the long term because of the way the body stores and supplies energy.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to run sprints in a tenth of the time Usain Bolt can do it because the muscles can only twitch so fast and accelerating that, even if possible, is only likely to tear the aforementioned ligaments; essentially the muscles would tear themselves off the bones.



Your Frenchmen also won't be able to lift cars or jump buildings or the like because the skeleton won't be strong enough to support the weight or take the impact of landing. Alright, that's not strictly true; it may be able to do it for a while but the price you're going to pay is that your body is going to give out a lot earlier than it otherwise would.



Even tradesmen and athletes today, without emulating super powers, suffer from a range of health problems in their later life. Many have worn cartilage, joint (especially knee) issues, arthritis and a stream of other wear to their bodies that limit their ability to perform basic tasks in their later years.



Put simply, your Frenchman still has a standard body that can only be pushed so far in its lifetime, regardless of how much control you may have over it.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered May 20 at 7:15









Tim B IITim B II

38.6k6 gold badges83 silver badges153 bronze badges




38.6k6 gold badges83 silver badges153 bronze badges











  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 8:01












  • $begingroup$
    @JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
    $endgroup$
    – Delioth
    May 20 at 15:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
    $endgroup$
    – Jared Smith
    May 20 at 16:24






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B II
    May 20 at 22:51










  • $begingroup$
    I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    May 21 at 6:30














  • 3




    $begingroup$
    I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
    $endgroup$
    – JBH
    May 20 at 8:01












  • $begingroup$
    @JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
    $endgroup$
    – Delioth
    May 20 at 15:56










  • $begingroup$
    I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
    $endgroup$
    – Jared Smith
    May 20 at 16:24






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    @Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
    $endgroup$
    – Tim B II
    May 20 at 22:51










  • $begingroup$
    I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
    $endgroup$
    – nick012000
    May 21 at 6:30








3




3




$begingroup$
I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
$endgroup$
– JBH
May 20 at 8:01






$begingroup$
I was a huge fan of The Six-Million Dollar Man as a kid. But in reality, "bionic" legs would rip his hips/spine/body apart. Probably the only cybernetics that could realistically exceed biological capacity would be eye/ear prosthetics since they're only modifying signals to the brain.
$endgroup$
– JBH
May 20 at 8:01














$begingroup$
@JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
$endgroup$
– Delioth
May 20 at 15:56




$begingroup$
@JBH Well, you could probably replace bionic legs and such - as long as you replace many of the connecting systems as well. I.e. to handle the stresses of cybernetic legs, you'd at least need a new hip and spine, and probably at least reinforcements at all points where other parts connect
$endgroup$
– Delioth
May 20 at 15:56












$begingroup$
I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
$endgroup$
– Jared Smith
May 20 at 16:24




$begingroup$
I think adrenaline or drug-assisted performance could still qualify as "super human", but yeah, TANSTAAFL.
$endgroup$
– Jared Smith
May 20 at 16:24




1




1




$begingroup$
@Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
$endgroup$
– Tim B II
May 20 at 22:51




$begingroup$
@Delioth the problem with that is that all you're really doing is pushing the weakest part of the system down the line to another point. By the time you've done this you end up with essentially a brain in a robotic body that houses a life support system for the brain alone.
$endgroup$
– Tim B II
May 20 at 22:51












$begingroup$
I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
$endgroup$
– nick012000
May 21 at 6:30




$begingroup$
I think that this answer might be improved my making a reference to "hysterical strength", where this sort of temporary limit-breaking can occur naturally for a short period of time (e.g. a mother lifting a car off her child).
$endgroup$
– nick012000
May 21 at 6:30













2












$begingroup$

I would assume that "superhuman" means "one that cannot be achieved by humans without supply of performance enhancers".

Because that what those implants would be. First remove that such implants would release hormones ON THEIR OWN. But they could stimulate release of such by owners body. Because you can always supply such with a needle and syringe and you don't need to implant anything to do that.

So in terms of power/strength/endurance those implants would work slightly worse than injections BUT much faster. Monitoring of "wearer" body stats would stimulate hormones at best times, giving most efficient training in best window. It could also provide exact feedback to maintain best performance. For example "right now eat exactly 50g of carbs to replenish glycogen in muscles for peak performance for 30 minutes".

No more guessing, trial and error kind of stuff.



But even with those some feats wouldn't be available without proper, long-term training. So if Frenchman muscles don't have the power to rip arm out of the socket it wouldn't be possible with implants. And I'm talking about "maximum power with adrenaline rush".

What does implants could do is stimulate that adrenaline rush on demand. Block "flight" part of "fight or flight", block pain receptors or intercept pain signals but find workaround for disabled parts of body. So to use secondary muscles if primary is damaged. Or to use some muscles exclusively to support broken bones while maintaining highest level of movability.



So in terms of "how much power/strength" such implants could provide the answer is "similar to taking steroids or SARMS (in long-time)".

In "how much endurance" such implants could provide the answer is "as much needed or until wearer dies".

You need to remember that pain is a biofeedback. If you ignore it you end up hurting yourself more than it's needed. There are stories about marathoners that had broken all bones in their feet's because they ignored the pain "there is nothing cushioning your feet". There are examples of strongmen ripping their muscles/hamstrings doing lifts they done in safe gym environment. Look at latest Arnold Classic. On 10 contenders 2 of them received injuries. Brian Shawn tried to compete with one but his performance was sub par.



If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus. Artificial pancreas is (in very simplified terms) injections of insulin. Something people do manually everyday. Just like everyday they inject themselves with growth hormone. So instead of carrying syringe with hormone you have it sewed in your body.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    "If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
    $endgroup$
    – Jacob Blaustein
    May 21 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    @JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
    $endgroup$
    – SZCZERZO KŁY
    May 22 at 7:28
















2












$begingroup$

I would assume that "superhuman" means "one that cannot be achieved by humans without supply of performance enhancers".

Because that what those implants would be. First remove that such implants would release hormones ON THEIR OWN. But they could stimulate release of such by owners body. Because you can always supply such with a needle and syringe and you don't need to implant anything to do that.

So in terms of power/strength/endurance those implants would work slightly worse than injections BUT much faster. Monitoring of "wearer" body stats would stimulate hormones at best times, giving most efficient training in best window. It could also provide exact feedback to maintain best performance. For example "right now eat exactly 50g of carbs to replenish glycogen in muscles for peak performance for 30 minutes".

No more guessing, trial and error kind of stuff.



But even with those some feats wouldn't be available without proper, long-term training. So if Frenchman muscles don't have the power to rip arm out of the socket it wouldn't be possible with implants. And I'm talking about "maximum power with adrenaline rush".

What does implants could do is stimulate that adrenaline rush on demand. Block "flight" part of "fight or flight", block pain receptors or intercept pain signals but find workaround for disabled parts of body. So to use secondary muscles if primary is damaged. Or to use some muscles exclusively to support broken bones while maintaining highest level of movability.



So in terms of "how much power/strength" such implants could provide the answer is "similar to taking steroids or SARMS (in long-time)".

In "how much endurance" such implants could provide the answer is "as much needed or until wearer dies".

You need to remember that pain is a biofeedback. If you ignore it you end up hurting yourself more than it's needed. There are stories about marathoners that had broken all bones in their feet's because they ignored the pain "there is nothing cushioning your feet". There are examples of strongmen ripping their muscles/hamstrings doing lifts they done in safe gym environment. Look at latest Arnold Classic. On 10 contenders 2 of them received injuries. Brian Shawn tried to compete with one but his performance was sub par.



If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus. Artificial pancreas is (in very simplified terms) injections of insulin. Something people do manually everyday. Just like everyday they inject themselves with growth hormone. So instead of carrying syringe with hormone you have it sewed in your body.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$















  • $begingroup$
    "If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
    $endgroup$
    – Jacob Blaustein
    May 21 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    @JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
    $endgroup$
    – SZCZERZO KŁY
    May 22 at 7:28














2












2








2





$begingroup$

I would assume that "superhuman" means "one that cannot be achieved by humans without supply of performance enhancers".

Because that what those implants would be. First remove that such implants would release hormones ON THEIR OWN. But they could stimulate release of such by owners body. Because you can always supply such with a needle and syringe and you don't need to implant anything to do that.

So in terms of power/strength/endurance those implants would work slightly worse than injections BUT much faster. Monitoring of "wearer" body stats would stimulate hormones at best times, giving most efficient training in best window. It could also provide exact feedback to maintain best performance. For example "right now eat exactly 50g of carbs to replenish glycogen in muscles for peak performance for 30 minutes".

No more guessing, trial and error kind of stuff.



But even with those some feats wouldn't be available without proper, long-term training. So if Frenchman muscles don't have the power to rip arm out of the socket it wouldn't be possible with implants. And I'm talking about "maximum power with adrenaline rush".

What does implants could do is stimulate that adrenaline rush on demand. Block "flight" part of "fight or flight", block pain receptors or intercept pain signals but find workaround for disabled parts of body. So to use secondary muscles if primary is damaged. Or to use some muscles exclusively to support broken bones while maintaining highest level of movability.



So in terms of "how much power/strength" such implants could provide the answer is "similar to taking steroids or SARMS (in long-time)".

In "how much endurance" such implants could provide the answer is "as much needed or until wearer dies".

You need to remember that pain is a biofeedback. If you ignore it you end up hurting yourself more than it's needed. There are stories about marathoners that had broken all bones in their feet's because they ignored the pain "there is nothing cushioning your feet". There are examples of strongmen ripping their muscles/hamstrings doing lifts they done in safe gym environment. Look at latest Arnold Classic. On 10 contenders 2 of them received injuries. Brian Shawn tried to compete with one but his performance was sub par.



If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus. Artificial pancreas is (in very simplified terms) injections of insulin. Something people do manually everyday. Just like everyday they inject themselves with growth hormone. So instead of carrying syringe with hormone you have it sewed in your body.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$



I would assume that "superhuman" means "one that cannot be achieved by humans without supply of performance enhancers".

Because that what those implants would be. First remove that such implants would release hormones ON THEIR OWN. But they could stimulate release of such by owners body. Because you can always supply such with a needle and syringe and you don't need to implant anything to do that.

So in terms of power/strength/endurance those implants would work slightly worse than injections BUT much faster. Monitoring of "wearer" body stats would stimulate hormones at best times, giving most efficient training in best window. It could also provide exact feedback to maintain best performance. For example "right now eat exactly 50g of carbs to replenish glycogen in muscles for peak performance for 30 minutes".

No more guessing, trial and error kind of stuff.



But even with those some feats wouldn't be available without proper, long-term training. So if Frenchman muscles don't have the power to rip arm out of the socket it wouldn't be possible with implants. And I'm talking about "maximum power with adrenaline rush".

What does implants could do is stimulate that adrenaline rush on demand. Block "flight" part of "fight or flight", block pain receptors or intercept pain signals but find workaround for disabled parts of body. So to use secondary muscles if primary is damaged. Or to use some muscles exclusively to support broken bones while maintaining highest level of movability.



So in terms of "how much power/strength" such implants could provide the answer is "similar to taking steroids or SARMS (in long-time)".

In "how much endurance" such implants could provide the answer is "as much needed or until wearer dies".

You need to remember that pain is a biofeedback. If you ignore it you end up hurting yourself more than it's needed. There are stories about marathoners that had broken all bones in their feet's because they ignored the pain "there is nothing cushioning your feet". There are examples of strongmen ripping their muscles/hamstrings doing lifts they done in safe gym environment. Look at latest Arnold Classic. On 10 contenders 2 of them received injuries. Brian Shawn tried to compete with one but his performance was sub par.



If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus. Artificial pancreas is (in very simplified terms) injections of insulin. Something people do manually everyday. Just like everyday they inject themselves with growth hormone. So instead of carrying syringe with hormone you have it sewed in your body.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered May 20 at 8:38









SZCZERZO KŁYSZCZERZO KŁY

18.3k2 gold badges26 silver badges58 bronze badges




18.3k2 gold badges26 silver badges58 bronze badges















  • $begingroup$
    "If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
    $endgroup$
    – Jacob Blaustein
    May 21 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    @JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
    $endgroup$
    – SZCZERZO KŁY
    May 22 at 7:28


















  • $begingroup$
    "If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
    $endgroup$
    – Jacob Blaustein
    May 21 at 21:20










  • $begingroup$
    @JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
    $endgroup$
    – SZCZERZO KŁY
    May 22 at 7:28
















$begingroup$
"If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Blaustein
May 21 at 21:20




$begingroup$
"If you consider using implants like pancreas or pacemaker you are considering introduction of outside stimulus" um, I don't see the issue with that.
$endgroup$
– Jacob Blaustein
May 21 at 21:20












$begingroup$
@JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
May 22 at 7:28




$begingroup$
@JacobBlaustein Such "implants" are just more sophisticated epi-pens. So there is no need to go through operation of "installing " such implant if you can use the syringe as then you have wider choice of stimulus you can take with you rather than sticking to ones you have in you or installing "just in case".
$endgroup$
– SZCZERZO KŁY
May 22 at 7:28


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Worldbuilding Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fworldbuilding.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f147347%2fwould-cybernetic-implants-allow-humans-to-use-biofeedback-to-boost-their-perform%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Færeyskur hestur Heimild | Tengill | Tilvísanir | LeiðsagnarvalRossið - síða um færeyska hrossið á færeyskuGott ár hjá færeyska hestinum

He _____ here since 1970 . Answer needed [closed]What does “since he was so high” mean?Meaning of “catch birds for”?How do I ensure “since” takes the meaning I want?“Who cares here” meaningWhat does “right round toward” mean?the time tense (had now been detected)What does the phrase “ring around the roses” mean here?Correct usage of “visited upon”Meaning of “foiled rail sabotage bid”It was the third time I had gone to Rome or It is the third time I had been to Rome

Slayer Innehåll Historia | Stil, komposition och lyrik | Bandets betydelse och framgångar | Sidoprojekt och samarbeten | Kontroverser | Medlemmar | Utmärkelser och nomineringar | Turnéer och festivaler | Diskografi | Referenser | Externa länkar | Navigeringsmenywww.slayer.net”Metal Massacre vol. 1””Metal Massacre vol. 3””Metal Massacre Volume III””Show No Mercy””Haunting the Chapel””Live Undead””Hell Awaits””Reign in Blood””Reign in Blood””Gold & Platinum – Reign in Blood””Golden Gods Awards Winners”originalet”Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Looks Back On 37-Year Career In New Video Series: Part Two””South of Heaven””Gold & Platinum – South of Heaven””Seasons in the Abyss””Gold & Platinum - Seasons in the Abyss””Divine Intervention””Divine Intervention - Release group by Slayer””Gold & Platinum - Divine Intervention””Live Intrusion””Undisputed Attitude””Abolish Government/Superficial Love””Release “Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer” by Various Artists””Diabolus in Musica””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””God Hates Us All””Systematic - Relationships””War at the Warfield””Gold & Platinum - War at the Warfield””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””Gold & Platinum - Still Reigning””Metallica, Slayer, Iron Mauden Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Eternal Pyre””Eternal Pyre - Slayer release group””Eternal Pyre””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Bullet-For My Valentine booed at Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Unholy Aliance””The End Of Slayer?””Slayer: We Could Thrash Out Two More Albums If We're Fast Enough...””'The Unholy Alliance: Chapter III' UK Dates Added”originalet”Megadeth And Slayer To Co-Headline 'Canadian Carnage' Trek”originalet”World Painted Blood””Release “World Painted Blood” by Slayer””Metallica Heading To Cinemas””Slayer, Megadeth To Join Forces For 'European Carnage' Tour - Dec. 18, 2010”originalet”Slayer's Hanneman Contracts Acute Infection; Band To Bring In Guest Guitarist””Cannibal Corpse's Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer's Guest Guitarist”originalet”Slayer’s Jeff Hanneman Dead at 49””Dave Lombardo Says He Made Only $67,000 In 2011 While Touring With Slayer””Slayer: We Do Not Agree With Dave Lombardo's Substance Or Timeline Of Events””Slayer Welcomes Drummer Paul Bostaph Back To The Fold””Slayer Hope to Unveil Never-Before-Heard Jeff Hanneman Material on Next Album””Slayer Debut New Song 'Implode' During Surprise Golden Gods Appearance””Release group Repentless by Slayer””Repentless - Slayer - Credits””Slayer””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer - to release comic book "Repentless #1"””Slayer To Release 'Repentless' 6.66" Vinyl Box Set””BREAKING NEWS: Slayer Announce Farewell Tour””Slayer Recruit Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth + Testament for Final Tour””Slayer lägger ner efter 37 år””Slayer Announces Second North American Leg Of 'Final' Tour””Final World Tour””Slayer Announces Final European Tour With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Tour Europe With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Play 'Last French Show Ever' At Next Year's Hellfst””Slayer's Final World Tour Will Extend Into 2019””Death Angel's Rob Cavestany On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour: 'Some Of Us Could See This Coming'””Testament Has No Plans To Retire Anytime Soon, Says Chuck Billy””Anthrax's Scott Ian On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour Plans: 'I Was Surprised And I Wasn't Surprised'””Slayer””Slayer's Morbid Schlock””Review/Rock; For Slayer, the Mania Is the Message””Slayer - Biography””Slayer - Reign In Blood”originalet”Dave Lombardo””An exclusive oral history of Slayer”originalet”Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman”originalet”Thinking Out Loud: Slayer's Kerry King on hair metal, Satan and being polite””Slayer Lyrics””Slayer - Biography””Most influential artists for extreme metal music””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dies aged 49””Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer””Gateway to Hell: A Tribute to Slayer””Covered In Blood””Slayer: The Origins of Thrash in San Francisco, CA.””Why They Rule - #6 Slayer”originalet”Guitar World's 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All Time”originalet”The fans have spoken: Slayer comes out on top in readers' polls”originalet”Tribute to Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)””Lamb Of God Frontman: We Sound Like A Slayer Rip-Off””BEHEMOTH Frontman Pays Tribute To SLAYER's JEFF HANNEMAN””Slayer, Hatebreed Doing Double Duty On This Year's Ozzfest””System of a Down””Lacuna Coil’s Andrea Ferro Talks Influences, Skateboarding, Band Origins + More””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Into The Lungs of Hell””Slayer rules - en utställning om fans””Slayer and Their Fans Slashed Through a No-Holds-Barred Night at Gas Monkey””Home””Slayer””Gold & Platinum - The Big 4 Live from Sofia, Bulgaria””Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Kerry King””2008-02-23: Wiltern, Los Angeles, CA, USA””Slayer's Kerry King To Perform With Megadeth Tonight! - Oct. 21, 2010”originalet”Dave Lombardo - Biography”Slayer Case DismissedArkiveradUltimate Classic Rock: Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dead at 49.”Slayer: "We could never do any thing like Some Kind Of Monster..."””Cannibal Corpse'S Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer'S Guest Guitarist | The Official Slayer Site”originalet”Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Kerrang! Awards 2006 Blog: Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Kerrang! Awards 2013: Kerrang! Legend”originalet”Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maien Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Bullet For My Valentine Booed At Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer's Concert History””Slayer - Relationships””Slayer - Releases”Slayers officiella webbplatsSlayer på MusicBrainzOfficiell webbplatsSlayerSlayerr1373445760000 0001 1540 47353068615-5086262726cb13906545x(data)6033143kn20030215029