Confused about a passage in Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal












5















I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



Gracias!










share|improve this question



























    5















    I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




    La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
    una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
    restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




    First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



    And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



    Gracias!










    share|improve this question

























      5












      5








      5








      I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




      La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
      una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
      restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




      First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



      And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



      Gracias!










      share|improve this question














      I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:




      La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
      una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
      restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




      First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.



      And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.



      Gracias!







      gramática






      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question











      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question










      asked 17 hours ago









      Alan O'DonnellAlan O'Donnell

      1433




      1433






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

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          10














          The sentence:




          Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




          is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



          The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




          La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




          This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



          In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




          Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




          The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:




          • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.


          The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



          Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 1





            Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

            – Alan O'Donnell
            13 hours ago



















          7














          Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



          The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:




          1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

          2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes


          In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



          In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



          "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




          La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







          share|improve this answer































            0














            Basically, it is saying the following:




            The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
            and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




            And for the following:




            los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




            First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






            share|improve this answer





















            • 1





              Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

              – Alan O'Donnell
              16 hours ago











            Your Answer








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            3 Answers
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            active

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            3 Answers
            3






            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

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            10














            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:




            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.


            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






            share|improve this answer





















            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              13 hours ago
















            10














            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:




            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.


            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






            share|improve this answer





















            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              13 hours ago














            10












            10








            10







            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:




            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.


            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.






            share|improve this answer















            The sentence:




            Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.




            is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.



            The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:




            La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).




            This inversion is very usual in Spanish.



            In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:




            Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).




            The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:




            • The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.


            The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:



            Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.







            share|improve this answer














            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer








            edited 15 hours ago

























            answered 15 hours ago









            GustavsonGustavson

            9,1911829




            9,1911829








            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              13 hours ago














            • 1





              Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

              – Alan O'Donnell
              13 hours ago








            1




            1





            Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

            – Alan O'Donnell
            13 hours ago





            Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…

            – Alan O'Donnell
            13 hours ago











            7














            Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



            The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:




            1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

            2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes


            In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



            In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



            "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




            La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







            share|improve this answer




























              7














              Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



              The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:




              1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

              2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes


              In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



              In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



              "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




              La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







              share|improve this answer


























                7












                7








                7







                Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



                The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:




                1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

                2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes


                In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



                In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



                "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




                La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.







                share|improve this answer













                Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.



                The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:




                1. sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas

                2. los restaba que tuvieran bigotes


                In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.



                In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".



                "Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be




                La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.








                share|improve this answer












                share|improve this answer



                share|improve this answer










                answered 16 hours ago









                pablodf76pablodf76

                22k11467




                22k11467























                    0














                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






                    share|improve this answer





















                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      16 hours ago
















                    0














                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






                    share|improve this answer





















                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      16 hours ago














                    0












                    0








                    0







                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.






                    share|improve this answer















                    Basically, it is saying the following:




                    The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
                    and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)




                    And for the following:




                    los restaba que tuvieran bigotes




                    First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.







                    share|improve this answer














                    share|improve this answer



                    share|improve this answer








                    edited 16 hours ago

























                    answered 16 hours ago









                    KarlomanioKarlomanio

                    41529




                    41529








                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      16 hours ago














                    • 1





                      Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                      – Alan O'Donnell
                      16 hours ago








                    1




                    1





                    Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                    – Alan O'Donnell
                    16 hours ago





                    Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.

                    – Alan O'Donnell
                    16 hours ago


















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Hall Of Fame””Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Bullet-For My Valentine booed at Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Unholy Aliance””The End Of Slayer?””Slayer: We Could Thrash Out Two More Albums If We're Fast Enough...””'The Unholy Alliance: Chapter III' UK Dates Added”originalet”Megadeth And Slayer To Co-Headline 'Canadian Carnage' Trek”originalet”World Painted Blood””Release “World Painted Blood” by Slayer””Metallica Heading To Cinemas””Slayer, Megadeth To Join Forces For 'European Carnage' Tour - Dec. 18, 2010”originalet”Slayer's Hanneman Contracts Acute Infection; Band To Bring In Guest Guitarist””Cannibal Corpse's Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer's Guest Guitarist”originalet”Slayer’s Jeff Hanneman Dead at 49””Dave Lombardo Says He Made Only $67,000 In 2011 While Touring With Slayer””Slayer: We Do Not Agree With Dave Lombardo's Substance Or Timeline Of Events””Slayer Welcomes Drummer Paul Bostaph Back To The Fold””Slayer Hope to Unveil Never-Before-Heard Jeff Hanneman Material on Next Album””Slayer Debut New Song 'Implode' During Surprise Golden Gods Appearance””Release group Repentless by Slayer””Repentless - Slayer - Credits””Slayer””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer - to release comic book "Repentless #1"””Slayer To Release 'Repentless' 6.66" Vinyl Box Set””BREAKING NEWS: Slayer Announce Farewell Tour””Slayer Recruit Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth + Testament for Final Tour””Slayer lägger ner efter 37 år””Slayer Announces Second North American Leg Of 'Final' Tour””Final World Tour””Slayer Announces Final European Tour With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Tour Europe With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Play 'Last French Show Ever' At Next Year's Hellfst””Slayer's Final World Tour Will Extend Into 2019””Death Angel's Rob Cavestany On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour: 'Some Of Us Could See This Coming'””Testament Has No Plans To Retire Anytime Soon, Says Chuck Billy””Anthrax's Scott Ian On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour Plans: 'I Was Surprised And I Wasn't Surprised'””Slayer””Slayer's Morbid Schlock””Review/Rock; For Slayer, the Mania Is the Message””Slayer - Biography””Slayer - Reign In Blood”originalet”Dave Lombardo””An exclusive oral history of Slayer”originalet”Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman”originalet”Thinking Out Loud: Slayer's Kerry King on hair metal, Satan and being polite””Slayer Lyrics””Slayer - Biography””Most influential artists for extreme metal music””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dies aged 49””Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer””Gateway to Hell: A Tribute to Slayer””Covered In Blood””Slayer: The Origins of Thrash in San Francisco, CA.””Why They Rule - #6 Slayer”originalet”Guitar World's 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All Time”originalet”The fans have spoken: Slayer comes out on top in readers' polls”originalet”Tribute to Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)””Lamb Of God Frontman: We Sound Like A Slayer Rip-Off””BEHEMOTH Frontman Pays Tribute To SLAYER's JEFF HANNEMAN””Slayer, Hatebreed Doing Double Duty On This Year's Ozzfest””System of a Down””Lacuna Coil’s Andrea Ferro Talks Influences, Skateboarding, Band Origins + More””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Into The Lungs of Hell””Slayer rules - en utställning om fans””Slayer and Their Fans Slashed Through a No-Holds-Barred Night at Gas Monkey””Home””Slayer””Gold & Platinum - The Big 4 Live from Sofia, Bulgaria””Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Kerry King””2008-02-23: Wiltern, Los Angeles, CA, USA””Slayer's Kerry King To Perform With Megadeth Tonight! - Oct. 21, 2010”originalet”Dave Lombardo - Biography”Slayer Case DismissedArkiveradUltimate Classic Rock: Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dead at 49.”Slayer: "We could never do any thing like Some Kind Of Monster..."””Cannibal Corpse'S Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer'S Guest Guitarist | The Official Slayer Site”originalet”Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Kerrang! Awards 2006 Blog: Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Kerrang! Awards 2013: Kerrang! Legend”originalet”Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maien Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Bullet For My Valentine Booed At Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer's Concert History””Slayer - Relationships””Slayer - Releases”Slayers officiella webbplatsSlayer på MusicBrainzOfficiell webbplatsSlayerSlayerr1373445760000 0001 1540 47353068615-5086262726cb13906545x(data)6033143kn20030215029