“And” vs “Or” in a list with a negative modifier
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If a given set of instructions says, for example:
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
Does that indicate that failure to do all of those assignments and only all of those assignments will result in the punishment, or that failure to complete any of the assignments will result in punishment?
I feel like it would mean that one must fail to complete all of the assignments, and I want to say that the statement is equivalent to "Failure to complete A and Failure to complete B and failure to complete C...", but I am unable to find an example of that equivalency online.
I am also unsure of how the negative modifier comes into play. For instance, does the sentence mean "Failure to complete (A, B, and C)..." or does it mean "Failure to (complete A, B, and C)..." Is there even a definite interpretation of this sentence?
meaning grammar conjunctions lists coordination
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
|
show 1 more comment
If a given set of instructions says, for example:
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
Does that indicate that failure to do all of those assignments and only all of those assignments will result in the punishment, or that failure to complete any of the assignments will result in punishment?
I feel like it would mean that one must fail to complete all of the assignments, and I want to say that the statement is equivalent to "Failure to complete A and Failure to complete B and failure to complete C...", but I am unable to find an example of that equivalency online.
I am also unsure of how the negative modifier comes into play. For instance, does the sentence mean "Failure to complete (A, B, and C)..." or does it mean "Failure to (complete A, B, and C)..." Is there even a definite interpretation of this sentence?
meaning grammar conjunctions lists coordination
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
2
If it says and, the simple answer is that it means and. If you complete (say) assignments A and C but don't complete B, then you have not completed assignments A, B, and C. If you have tried, but have not completed all of them, then you have failed to complete them.
– John Lawler
May 28 at 23:20
Is the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment." then the same as the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment."? I feel like your description of the statement is best suited by the version that says or.
– Brad L.
May 28 at 23:32
And I want to add that the phrase does not say "You MUST complete assignments, A, B, and C..." in which case it is simply "and" and you'd be correct. However it begins with "Failure to complete", which I believe indicates that the sentence's intention signifies failure to complete assignments to receive a punishment, instead of simply needing to complete assignments to avoid punishment.
– Brad L.
May 29 at 0:11
Plenty of people use this type of construction to mean that it is true of assignments A, B and C that failure to complete will lead to punishment - so in practical terms it is ambiguous. I would have thought there would be a parse that corresponds to that meaning, but in light of John Lawler's comment, maybe not.
– user339660
May 29 at 0:37
1
You can parse it that way if you like, but it comes out the same either way. Finish all or be punished, your choice.
– John Lawler
May 29 at 1:45
|
show 1 more comment
If a given set of instructions says, for example:
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
Does that indicate that failure to do all of those assignments and only all of those assignments will result in the punishment, or that failure to complete any of the assignments will result in punishment?
I feel like it would mean that one must fail to complete all of the assignments, and I want to say that the statement is equivalent to "Failure to complete A and Failure to complete B and failure to complete C...", but I am unable to find an example of that equivalency online.
I am also unsure of how the negative modifier comes into play. For instance, does the sentence mean "Failure to complete (A, B, and C)..." or does it mean "Failure to (complete A, B, and C)..." Is there even a definite interpretation of this sentence?
meaning grammar conjunctions lists coordination
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
If a given set of instructions says, for example:
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
Does that indicate that failure to do all of those assignments and only all of those assignments will result in the punishment, or that failure to complete any of the assignments will result in punishment?
I feel like it would mean that one must fail to complete all of the assignments, and I want to say that the statement is equivalent to "Failure to complete A and Failure to complete B and failure to complete C...", but I am unable to find an example of that equivalency online.
I am also unsure of how the negative modifier comes into play. For instance, does the sentence mean "Failure to complete (A, B, and C)..." or does it mean "Failure to (complete A, B, and C)..." Is there even a definite interpretation of this sentence?
meaning grammar conjunctions lists coordination
meaning grammar conjunctions lists coordination
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
asked May 28 at 22:58
Brad L.Brad L.
1
1
2
If it says and, the simple answer is that it means and. If you complete (say) assignments A and C but don't complete B, then you have not completed assignments A, B, and C. If you have tried, but have not completed all of them, then you have failed to complete them.
– John Lawler
May 28 at 23:20
Is the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment." then the same as the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment."? I feel like your description of the statement is best suited by the version that says or.
– Brad L.
May 28 at 23:32
And I want to add that the phrase does not say "You MUST complete assignments, A, B, and C..." in which case it is simply "and" and you'd be correct. However it begins with "Failure to complete", which I believe indicates that the sentence's intention signifies failure to complete assignments to receive a punishment, instead of simply needing to complete assignments to avoid punishment.
– Brad L.
May 29 at 0:11
Plenty of people use this type of construction to mean that it is true of assignments A, B and C that failure to complete will lead to punishment - so in practical terms it is ambiguous. I would have thought there would be a parse that corresponds to that meaning, but in light of John Lawler's comment, maybe not.
– user339660
May 29 at 0:37
1
You can parse it that way if you like, but it comes out the same either way. Finish all or be punished, your choice.
– John Lawler
May 29 at 1:45
|
show 1 more comment
2
If it says and, the simple answer is that it means and. If you complete (say) assignments A and C but don't complete B, then you have not completed assignments A, B, and C. If you have tried, but have not completed all of them, then you have failed to complete them.
– John Lawler
May 28 at 23:20
Is the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment." then the same as the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment."? I feel like your description of the statement is best suited by the version that says or.
– Brad L.
May 28 at 23:32
And I want to add that the phrase does not say "You MUST complete assignments, A, B, and C..." in which case it is simply "and" and you'd be correct. However it begins with "Failure to complete", which I believe indicates that the sentence's intention signifies failure to complete assignments to receive a punishment, instead of simply needing to complete assignments to avoid punishment.
– Brad L.
May 29 at 0:11
Plenty of people use this type of construction to mean that it is true of assignments A, B and C that failure to complete will lead to punishment - so in practical terms it is ambiguous. I would have thought there would be a parse that corresponds to that meaning, but in light of John Lawler's comment, maybe not.
– user339660
May 29 at 0:37
1
You can parse it that way if you like, but it comes out the same either way. Finish all or be punished, your choice.
– John Lawler
May 29 at 1:45
2
2
If it says and, the simple answer is that it means and. If you complete (say) assignments A and C but don't complete B, then you have not completed assignments A, B, and C. If you have tried, but have not completed all of them, then you have failed to complete them.
– John Lawler
May 28 at 23:20
If it says and, the simple answer is that it means and. If you complete (say) assignments A and C but don't complete B, then you have not completed assignments A, B, and C. If you have tried, but have not completed all of them, then you have failed to complete them.
– John Lawler
May 28 at 23:20
Is the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment." then the same as the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment."? I feel like your description of the statement is best suited by the version that says or.
– Brad L.
May 28 at 23:32
Is the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment." then the same as the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment."? I feel like your description of the statement is best suited by the version that says or.
– Brad L.
May 28 at 23:32
And I want to add that the phrase does not say "You MUST complete assignments, A, B, and C..." in which case it is simply "and" and you'd be correct. However it begins with "Failure to complete", which I believe indicates that the sentence's intention signifies failure to complete assignments to receive a punishment, instead of simply needing to complete assignments to avoid punishment.
– Brad L.
May 29 at 0:11
And I want to add that the phrase does not say "You MUST complete assignments, A, B, and C..." in which case it is simply "and" and you'd be correct. However it begins with "Failure to complete", which I believe indicates that the sentence's intention signifies failure to complete assignments to receive a punishment, instead of simply needing to complete assignments to avoid punishment.
– Brad L.
May 29 at 0:11
Plenty of people use this type of construction to mean that it is true of assignments A, B and C that failure to complete will lead to punishment - so in practical terms it is ambiguous. I would have thought there would be a parse that corresponds to that meaning, but in light of John Lawler's comment, maybe not.
– user339660
May 29 at 0:37
Plenty of people use this type of construction to mean that it is true of assignments A, B and C that failure to complete will lead to punishment - so in practical terms it is ambiguous. I would have thought there would be a parse that corresponds to that meaning, but in light of John Lawler's comment, maybe not.
– user339660
May 29 at 0:37
1
1
You can parse it that way if you like, but it comes out the same either way. Finish all or be punished, your choice.
– John Lawler
May 29 at 1:45
You can parse it that way if you like, but it comes out the same either way. Finish all or be punished, your choice.
– John Lawler
May 29 at 1:45
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
means all three assignments must be completed: if one or more of them is not completed punishment will follow.
The construction "to complete assignments A, B, and C" is in the form of a noun infinitive ("to complete") followed by "assignments A, B, and C" as the object of complete. And "A", "B" and "C" are being used as postpositive adjectives describing "assignments" in the plural.
While "failure" and "punishment" have negative connotations they are not boolean operators - trying to use boolean logic reduction as if they were appears more hopeful than warranted - and removing the negative terms does not significantly change the instruction. Consider that:
Be sure to complete assignments A, B and C
does not mean the same thing to a teacher as
Be sure to complete assignment A, B or C
and
Be sure to complete assignments A, B or C
with assignments in the plural would need rewording to convey its meaning unambiguously .
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
add a comment
|
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Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
means all three assignments must be completed: if one or more of them is not completed punishment will follow.
The construction "to complete assignments A, B, and C" is in the form of a noun infinitive ("to complete") followed by "assignments A, B, and C" as the object of complete. And "A", "B" and "C" are being used as postpositive adjectives describing "assignments" in the plural.
While "failure" and "punishment" have negative connotations they are not boolean operators - trying to use boolean logic reduction as if they were appears more hopeful than warranted - and removing the negative terms does not significantly change the instruction. Consider that:
Be sure to complete assignments A, B and C
does not mean the same thing to a teacher as
Be sure to complete assignment A, B or C
and
Be sure to complete assignments A, B or C
with assignments in the plural would need rewording to convey its meaning unambiguously .
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
add a comment
|
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
means all three assignments must be completed: if one or more of them is not completed punishment will follow.
The construction "to complete assignments A, B, and C" is in the form of a noun infinitive ("to complete") followed by "assignments A, B, and C" as the object of complete. And "A", "B" and "C" are being used as postpositive adjectives describing "assignments" in the plural.
While "failure" and "punishment" have negative connotations they are not boolean operators - trying to use boolean logic reduction as if they were appears more hopeful than warranted - and removing the negative terms does not significantly change the instruction. Consider that:
Be sure to complete assignments A, B and C
does not mean the same thing to a teacher as
Be sure to complete assignment A, B or C
and
Be sure to complete assignments A, B or C
with assignments in the plural would need rewording to convey its meaning unambiguously .
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
add a comment
|
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
means all three assignments must be completed: if one or more of them is not completed punishment will follow.
The construction "to complete assignments A, B, and C" is in the form of a noun infinitive ("to complete") followed by "assignments A, B, and C" as the object of complete. And "A", "B" and "C" are being used as postpositive adjectives describing "assignments" in the plural.
While "failure" and "punishment" have negative connotations they are not boolean operators - trying to use boolean logic reduction as if they were appears more hopeful than warranted - and removing the negative terms does not significantly change the instruction. Consider that:
Be sure to complete assignments A, B and C
does not mean the same thing to a teacher as
Be sure to complete assignment A, B or C
and
Be sure to complete assignments A, B or C
with assignments in the plural would need rewording to convey its meaning unambiguously .
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment.
means all three assignments must be completed: if one or more of them is not completed punishment will follow.
The construction "to complete assignments A, B, and C" is in the form of a noun infinitive ("to complete") followed by "assignments A, B, and C" as the object of complete. And "A", "B" and "C" are being used as postpositive adjectives describing "assignments" in the plural.
While "failure" and "punishment" have negative connotations they are not boolean operators - trying to use boolean logic reduction as if they were appears more hopeful than warranted - and removing the negative terms does not significantly change the instruction. Consider that:
Be sure to complete assignments A, B and C
does not mean the same thing to a teacher as
Be sure to complete assignment A, B or C
and
Be sure to complete assignments A, B or C
with assignments in the plural would need rewording to convey its meaning unambiguously .
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
answered May 29 at 7:52
traktor53traktor53
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
6334 silver badges8 bronze badges
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
add a comment
|
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
If "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment" results in punishment upon failure to complete one or more assignments, then what does the phrase "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" mean?
– Brad L.
May 29 at 11:23
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
Usually "or" denotes one of a group and "assignments A, B or C" conflicts with this. The meaning of "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment" is badly worded and needs further clarification of what it is supposed to mean from its originator.
– traktor53
May 29 at 12:35
add a comment
|
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If it says and, the simple answer is that it means and. If you complete (say) assignments A and C but don't complete B, then you have not completed assignments A, B, and C. If you have tried, but have not completed all of them, then you have failed to complete them.
– John Lawler
May 28 at 23:20
Is the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, and C will result in punishment." then the same as the statement "Failure to complete assignments A, B, or C will result in punishment."? I feel like your description of the statement is best suited by the version that says or.
– Brad L.
May 28 at 23:32
And I want to add that the phrase does not say "You MUST complete assignments, A, B, and C..." in which case it is simply "and" and you'd be correct. However it begins with "Failure to complete", which I believe indicates that the sentence's intention signifies failure to complete assignments to receive a punishment, instead of simply needing to complete assignments to avoid punishment.
– Brad L.
May 29 at 0:11
Plenty of people use this type of construction to mean that it is true of assignments A, B and C that failure to complete will lead to punishment - so in practical terms it is ambiguous. I would have thought there would be a parse that corresponds to that meaning, but in light of John Lawler's comment, maybe not.
– user339660
May 29 at 0:37
1
You can parse it that way if you like, but it comes out the same either way. Finish all or be punished, your choice.
– John Lawler
May 29 at 1:45