In Star Trek IV, why did the Bounty go back to a time when whales were already rare? Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast? Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Favorite questions and answers from first quarter of 2019 Latest Blog Post: FanX Salt Lake Comic Convention (Spring 2019)Why does the aluminium need to be transparent?How did Kirk get the whales out?Why didn't Spock save the Romulan Empire by going back in time?Were the HMS Bounty footprints inspired by crop circles?Why didn’t park-goers bump into the invisible HMS Bounty more often?Why do we see the stairs in the cloaked ship in Star Trek 4?When were Dilithium Crystals first mentioned in Star Trek?Which Earth species are extinct in the Star Trek universe?How were the whales able to breathe?Why is time travel so rare in the Star Trek universe?Why did they need a water tank to transport the humpback whales back to the future?

Why do people think Winterfell crypts is the safest place for women, children and old people?

Where did Arya get these scars?

Does using the Inspiration rules for character defects encourage My Guy Syndrome?

PIC mathematical operations weird problem

What's parked in Mil Moscow helicopter plant?

Does every subgroup of an abelian group have to be abelian?

How can I wire a 9-position switch so that each position turns on one more LED than the one before?

false 'Security alert' from Google - every login generates mails from 'no-reply@accounts.google.com'

France's Public Holidays' Puzzle

Putting Ant-Man on house arrest

Arriving in Atlanta after US Preclearance in Dublin. Will I go through TSA security in Atlanta to transfer to a connecting flight?

Like totally amazing interchangeable sister outfit accessory swapping or whatever

Why didn't the Space Shuttle bounce back into space many times as possible so that it loose lot of kinetic energy over there?

Why does Java have support for time zone offsets with seconds precision?

Is it appropriate to mention a relatable company blog post when you're asked about the company?

Married in secret, can marital status in passport be changed at a later date?

All ASCII characters with a given bit count

How long can a nation maintain a technological edge over the rest of the world?

What was Apollo 13's "Little Jolt" after MECO?

Is it accepted to use working hours to read general interest books?

Does Prince Arnaud cause someone holding the Princess to lose?

My admission is revoked after accepting the admission offer

Is it OK if I do not take the receipt in Germany?

How was Lagrange appointed professor of mathematics so early?



In Star Trek IV, why did the Bounty go back to a time when whales were already rare?



Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Favorite questions and answers from first quarter of 2019
Latest Blog Post: FanX Salt Lake Comic Convention (Spring 2019)Why does the aluminium need to be transparent?How did Kirk get the whales out?Why didn't Spock save the Romulan Empire by going back in time?Were the HMS Bounty footprints inspired by crop circles?Why didn’t park-goers bump into the invisible HMS Bounty more often?Why do we see the stairs in the cloaked ship in Star Trek 4?When were Dilithium Crystals first mentioned in Star Trek?Which Earth species are extinct in the Star Trek universe?How were the whales able to breathe?Why is time travel so rare in the Star Trek universe?Why did they need a water tank to transport the humpback whales back to the future?



.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;








44















In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, the Bounty travels back to what looks to be Earth circa 1985 to acquire a breeding pair of whales. Yet at this time, whales were already in danger and people were sophisticated enough that the Bounty might be detected and possibly destroyed.



Why did they not travel back to 900 AD or so before mass whaling or missiles became a thing?










share|improve this question



















  • 4





    Later would've risked going past when they were extinct or tripping over the Eugenics Wars which were in full swing twenty years ago according to TOS history.

    – IG_42
    Mar 24 at 3:23






  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:21






  • 2





    @M.A.Golding Then why don't you post an answer of your own?

    – Rand al'Thor
    Mar 25 at 13:23






  • 1





    The whole terra incognita thing could have easily failed. It barely worked in 1986. Also, this is an ex post facto justification but had they gone to 900AD, they would have been stranded there with no way to get back and no way to make a whale tank, but we can infer that they chose ~1986 for those reasons.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:11







  • 1





    Their goal was to recover a breeding pair of whales, but also - presumably - to avoid messing with the timeline too much in the process. Going back to 900 AD or earlier would mean removing a pair of whales who presumably would have reproduced (either with each other or with other whales.) The sudden absence of those progeny could influence the timeline in ways that are difficult to predict - whalers might go home empty-handed who previously had caught a whale, etc. By getting as close as (safely) possible to the time that the whales historically went extinct, they minimize these ripples.

    – Steve-O
    Mar 26 at 13:42

















44















In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, the Bounty travels back to what looks to be Earth circa 1985 to acquire a breeding pair of whales. Yet at this time, whales were already in danger and people were sophisticated enough that the Bounty might be detected and possibly destroyed.



Why did they not travel back to 900 AD or so before mass whaling or missiles became a thing?










share|improve this question



















  • 4





    Later would've risked going past when they were extinct or tripping over the Eugenics Wars which were in full swing twenty years ago according to TOS history.

    – IG_42
    Mar 24 at 3:23






  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:21






  • 2





    @M.A.Golding Then why don't you post an answer of your own?

    – Rand al'Thor
    Mar 25 at 13:23






  • 1





    The whole terra incognita thing could have easily failed. It barely worked in 1986. Also, this is an ex post facto justification but had they gone to 900AD, they would have been stranded there with no way to get back and no way to make a whale tank, but we can infer that they chose ~1986 for those reasons.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:11







  • 1





    Their goal was to recover a breeding pair of whales, but also - presumably - to avoid messing with the timeline too much in the process. Going back to 900 AD or earlier would mean removing a pair of whales who presumably would have reproduced (either with each other or with other whales.) The sudden absence of those progeny could influence the timeline in ways that are difficult to predict - whalers might go home empty-handed who previously had caught a whale, etc. By getting as close as (safely) possible to the time that the whales historically went extinct, they minimize these ripples.

    – Steve-O
    Mar 26 at 13:42













44












44








44


1






In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, the Bounty travels back to what looks to be Earth circa 1985 to acquire a breeding pair of whales. Yet at this time, whales were already in danger and people were sophisticated enough that the Bounty might be detected and possibly destroyed.



Why did they not travel back to 900 AD or so before mass whaling or missiles became a thing?










share|improve this question
















In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, the Bounty travels back to what looks to be Earth circa 1985 to acquire a breeding pair of whales. Yet at this time, whales were already in danger and people were sophisticated enough that the Bounty might be detected and possibly destroyed.



Why did they not travel back to 900 AD or so before mass whaling or missiles became a thing?







star-trek the-voyage-home






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 25 at 6:13









Peter Mortensen

21219




21219










asked Mar 24 at 2:15









BobBob

38125




38125







  • 4





    Later would've risked going past when they were extinct or tripping over the Eugenics Wars which were in full swing twenty years ago according to TOS history.

    – IG_42
    Mar 24 at 3:23






  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:21






  • 2





    @M.A.Golding Then why don't you post an answer of your own?

    – Rand al'Thor
    Mar 25 at 13:23






  • 1





    The whole terra incognita thing could have easily failed. It barely worked in 1986. Also, this is an ex post facto justification but had they gone to 900AD, they would have been stranded there with no way to get back and no way to make a whale tank, but we can infer that they chose ~1986 for those reasons.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:11







  • 1





    Their goal was to recover a breeding pair of whales, but also - presumably - to avoid messing with the timeline too much in the process. Going back to 900 AD or earlier would mean removing a pair of whales who presumably would have reproduced (either with each other or with other whales.) The sudden absence of those progeny could influence the timeline in ways that are difficult to predict - whalers might go home empty-handed who previously had caught a whale, etc. By getting as close as (safely) possible to the time that the whales historically went extinct, they minimize these ripples.

    – Steve-O
    Mar 26 at 13:42












  • 4





    Later would've risked going past when they were extinct or tripping over the Eugenics Wars which were in full swing twenty years ago according to TOS history.

    – IG_42
    Mar 24 at 3:23






  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:21






  • 2





    @M.A.Golding Then why don't you post an answer of your own?

    – Rand al'Thor
    Mar 25 at 13:23






  • 1





    The whole terra incognita thing could have easily failed. It barely worked in 1986. Also, this is an ex post facto justification but had they gone to 900AD, they would have been stranded there with no way to get back and no way to make a whale tank, but we can infer that they chose ~1986 for those reasons.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:11







  • 1





    Their goal was to recover a breeding pair of whales, but also - presumably - to avoid messing with the timeline too much in the process. Going back to 900 AD or earlier would mean removing a pair of whales who presumably would have reproduced (either with each other or with other whales.) The sudden absence of those progeny could influence the timeline in ways that are difficult to predict - whalers might go home empty-handed who previously had caught a whale, etc. By getting as close as (safely) possible to the time that the whales historically went extinct, they minimize these ripples.

    – Steve-O
    Mar 26 at 13:42







4




4





Later would've risked going past when they were extinct or tripping over the Eugenics Wars which were in full swing twenty years ago according to TOS history.

– IG_42
Mar 24 at 3:23





Later would've risked going past when they were extinct or tripping over the Eugenics Wars which were in full swing twenty years ago according to TOS history.

– IG_42
Mar 24 at 3:23




2




2





There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

– M. A. Golding
Mar 24 at 17:21





There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

– M. A. Golding
Mar 24 at 17:21




2




2





@M.A.Golding Then why don't you post an answer of your own?

– Rand al'Thor
Mar 25 at 13:23





@M.A.Golding Then why don't you post an answer of your own?

– Rand al'Thor
Mar 25 at 13:23




1




1





The whole terra incognita thing could have easily failed. It barely worked in 1986. Also, this is an ex post facto justification but had they gone to 900AD, they would have been stranded there with no way to get back and no way to make a whale tank, but we can infer that they chose ~1986 for those reasons.

– J Doe
Mar 25 at 15:11






The whole terra incognita thing could have easily failed. It barely worked in 1986. Also, this is an ex post facto justification but had they gone to 900AD, they would have been stranded there with no way to get back and no way to make a whale tank, but we can infer that they chose ~1986 for those reasons.

– J Doe
Mar 25 at 15:11





1




1





Their goal was to recover a breeding pair of whales, but also - presumably - to avoid messing with the timeline too much in the process. Going back to 900 AD or earlier would mean removing a pair of whales who presumably would have reproduced (either with each other or with other whales.) The sudden absence of those progeny could influence the timeline in ways that are difficult to predict - whalers might go home empty-handed who previously had caught a whale, etc. By getting as close as (safely) possible to the time that the whales historically went extinct, they minimize these ripples.

– Steve-O
Mar 26 at 13:42





Their goal was to recover a breeding pair of whales, but also - presumably - to avoid messing with the timeline too much in the process. Going back to 900 AD or earlier would mean removing a pair of whales who presumably would have reproduced (either with each other or with other whales.) The sudden absence of those progeny could influence the timeline in ways that are difficult to predict - whalers might go home empty-handed who previously had caught a whale, etc. By getting as close as (safely) possible to the time that the whales historically went extinct, they minimize these ripples.

– Steve-O
Mar 26 at 13:42










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















55














This is addressed in the film's official novelisation which contains a slightly extended version of Kirk's conversations aboard the Bounty. Mr Scott was making plans to turn the hold into a holding tank, per the Captain's orders, and evidently worked out that he'd need materials from at least the twentieth century (onwards).




"Scott here, admiral. Wi' the proper materials--the proper twentieth-century materials--I'll be able to build ye a tank."



"Thank you, Mr. Scott."




Coupled with the known extinction date of the humpback whale, this gives them a pretty solid date range to aim for with their time warp maneuver. Although they had quite a broad range in mind ("late twentieth century"), Spock's calculations turned out to be reasonably accurate. Given that Perspex® has been readily available from the 1960s, presumably he'd have been just as happy with 1975 as 1999.




"Ready to engage computer, admiral," Spock said.



"What's our target in time?" Jim asked.



"The late twentieth century."



"Surely you can be more specific."







share|improve this answer




















  • 14





    Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:17






  • 1





    @JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 15:18






  • 5





    @Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 20:57











  • @Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 21:05











  • @Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

    – onepound
    Mar 26 at 12:07



















20














They had a narrow timeframe that would be useful to them.



  • They needed to arrive late enough that the whale-tank materials they needed to modify the ship would be readily available -- post-1950s. Not just "possible", but in stock locally.

  • They needed an economy robust and entreprenurial enough that their oddball material purchases needs wouldn't pop up any red flags on any government's radar (for instance doing this in the Soviet Union was right out) - so 1950s and up.

  • If they had any problems with the vessel's drive systems (and they did), they needed a modern enough society where technology, electronics, nuclear things, etc. were well-developed and readily available (so 1970s at least, and the later the better!)


  • Whale science needed to be solidly established, with plenty of experts available - because they needed to catch whales, and they had little chance of getting Klingon sensors to tell them the difference between a gray whale and a sperm whale.

    • Even better if culture had become affluent enough that there were aquatic zoos like Sea World, so we're definitely into the 1970s.


  • Preferably, racism (including war sentiments) have declined considerably, so Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Spock will have an easier time, so 1970s and the later the better. It would also help if the Cold War was abating, so 1980s.

  • Can't go later than 1991, because in Trek canon, the Eugenics Wars began.





share|improve this answer























  • There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:23






  • 15





    @M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

    – Harper
    Mar 24 at 18:00






  • 2





    Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

    – vsz
    Mar 25 at 7:12


















14














To transport the whales the crew used transparent aluminium for their makeshift holding tank which they had to "invent" themselves and produce using 1985 technology which wouldn't have existed in 900 AD.






share|improve this answer


















  • 42





    They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

    – Jon Clements
    Mar 24 at 3:55







  • 1





    Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

    – SpacePhoenix
    Mar 24 at 7:42






  • 17





    This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 8:57







  • 12





    @Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 9:42






  • 8





    @M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 25 at 17:32


















12














I'm not completely familiar with the "time sling-shot" maneuver, but there are multiple possible reasons for that.



Going further back is dangerous



It might be that ~1980 is roughly the earliest year they can safely travel. Traveling any further back might strain the Bird of Prey (also dubbed "rust bucket") too much and you all might die. Any further into the future and you might not have the chance to encounter whales.



Time travel is not an exact science



From what we can see in the movie they never specify to what year they want to go. Quite the opposite, directly after the jump this dialog happens:




Kirk: Picture, please.



[Picture of Earth appears in the viewscreen.]



Kirk: Earth. But when? Spock?



Spock: Judging by the pollution content of the atmosphere, I believe we have arrived at the latter half of the twentieth century.




So they know how to roughly jump back in time, but they can't target a certain year or period.



Time travel is an exact science



In the TOS episode "Tomorrow is yesterday" the crew of the Enterprise learns the mechanics required to jump through time by accident. They complete a maneuver around a black star which hurls them back into the ~1960s on Earth. At the end, they can execute the same maneuver around Sol to travel back to their time.



Unbeknownst to them, this time travel method might have a fixed time span of roughly ~300 years you can jump backwards and forwards with, as the dates neatly line up. Or maybe they knew about it, but it was never established on screen.



Repairs and Extensions



Last but not least, the Bird of Prey is ill equipped to transport whales. That means that you need the resources to remodel it on the fly in the past. That excludes anything before ~1960 I guess, because since then we have made vast advancements in technology. Additionally, Earth is in a pretty bad shape starting from ~1991 with Eugenic War waging and killing tens of million of people, and undoubtedly binding a lot of resources. So you want to land before that, because afterwards you'd either end up in one of three situations:



  • You can't acquire the resources required because they are not available because of the war.

  • Whales are already extinct.

  • The technology has advanced so far that you have a hard time doing your thing.

With these restrictions in mind, the period around ~1980 sounds like quite a good place to be.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:22






  • 1





    @M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 18:16


















10














Spock, master of spin



Spock put a convincing "spin" on his plan when he explained it to Kirk, playing down the margin of error. Just as Scotty learned to pad his estimates when Kirk was likely to make unreasonable demands, Spock knew that Kirk had trouble relying on logic for making dispassionate decisions in scary situations.



Based on the Star Trek IV transcript, Spock determined the earliest date from which they could return. He listed fuel components as a limiting resource:




KIRK: What is our target in time?



SPOCK: Late twentieth century.



KIRK: Surely you can be more specific.



SPOCK: Not with this equipment. I have had to programme some of the
variables from memory.



KIRK: What are some of the variables?



SPOCK: Availability of fuel components, mass of the vessel through a
time continuum, and the probable location of humpback whales, in this
case, the Pacific basin.




A trip deeper into the past would have presumably required a more extreme slingshot maneuver with greater strain on fuel components.



As it turned out, they arrived right on target, so Spock's computations were accurate. Spock's plan broke the ship, but he had a way to fix it:




SCOTT: Admiral, we have a serious problem. Would you please come down?
It's these Klingon crystals, Admiral. The time-travel drained them.
They're giving out. De-crystallising.



KIRK: Give me a round figure, Mister Scott.



SCOTT: Oh, twenty-four hours, give or take, staying cloaked. After
that, Admiral, we're visible, ...and dead in the water. In any case,
we won't have enough to break out of Earth's gravity, to say nothing
of getting back home.



KIRK: I can't believe we've come this far only to be stopped by this!
Is there no way to re-crystallise dilithium?



SCOTT: Sorry, sir. We can't even do that in the twenty-third century.



SPOCK: Admiral, there may be a twentieth century possibility.



KIRK: Explain.



SPOCK: If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear
fission reactors resulting in toxic side effects. By the beginning of
the fusion era, these reactors had been replaced, but at this time, we
may be able to find some.



KIRK: I thought you said they were toxic.



SPOCK: We could construct a device to collect their high-energy
photons safely. These photons could then be injected into the
dilithium chamber, causing crystalline restructure. ...Theoretically.



KIRK: Where would we find these reactors, ...theoretically?



SPOCK: Nuclear power was widely used in naval vessels.




The way Spock immediately offered a solution to their crystal dilemma (the aforementioned "fuel components", it seems), a suspicious person might think that this was part of his original plan.



(I'm tempted to think that Spock simply remembered reading about the Cetacean Institute's humpback whales, couldn't quite recall all of the details due to post-regeneration trauma, and based the entire plan around a hunch.)






share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

    – VBartilucci
    Mar 25 at 18:00











  • Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

    – Matt
    Mar 25 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

    – Mason Wheeler
    Mar 25 at 21:37











  • @Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:12











  • The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:14











Your Answer








StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "186"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);













draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f207777%2fin-star-trek-iv-why-did-the-bounty-go-back-to-a-time-when-whales-were-already-r%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes








5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









55














This is addressed in the film's official novelisation which contains a slightly extended version of Kirk's conversations aboard the Bounty. Mr Scott was making plans to turn the hold into a holding tank, per the Captain's orders, and evidently worked out that he'd need materials from at least the twentieth century (onwards).




"Scott here, admiral. Wi' the proper materials--the proper twentieth-century materials--I'll be able to build ye a tank."



"Thank you, Mr. Scott."




Coupled with the known extinction date of the humpback whale, this gives them a pretty solid date range to aim for with their time warp maneuver. Although they had quite a broad range in mind ("late twentieth century"), Spock's calculations turned out to be reasonably accurate. Given that Perspex® has been readily available from the 1960s, presumably he'd have been just as happy with 1975 as 1999.




"Ready to engage computer, admiral," Spock said.



"What's our target in time?" Jim asked.



"The late twentieth century."



"Surely you can be more specific."







share|improve this answer




















  • 14





    Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:17






  • 1





    @JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 15:18






  • 5





    @Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 20:57











  • @Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 21:05











  • @Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

    – onepound
    Mar 26 at 12:07
















55














This is addressed in the film's official novelisation which contains a slightly extended version of Kirk's conversations aboard the Bounty. Mr Scott was making plans to turn the hold into a holding tank, per the Captain's orders, and evidently worked out that he'd need materials from at least the twentieth century (onwards).




"Scott here, admiral. Wi' the proper materials--the proper twentieth-century materials--I'll be able to build ye a tank."



"Thank you, Mr. Scott."




Coupled with the known extinction date of the humpback whale, this gives them a pretty solid date range to aim for with their time warp maneuver. Although they had quite a broad range in mind ("late twentieth century"), Spock's calculations turned out to be reasonably accurate. Given that Perspex® has been readily available from the 1960s, presumably he'd have been just as happy with 1975 as 1999.




"Ready to engage computer, admiral," Spock said.



"What's our target in time?" Jim asked.



"The late twentieth century."



"Surely you can be more specific."







share|improve this answer




















  • 14





    Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:17






  • 1





    @JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 15:18






  • 5





    @Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 20:57











  • @Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 21:05











  • @Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

    – onepound
    Mar 26 at 12:07














55












55








55







This is addressed in the film's official novelisation which contains a slightly extended version of Kirk's conversations aboard the Bounty. Mr Scott was making plans to turn the hold into a holding tank, per the Captain's orders, and evidently worked out that he'd need materials from at least the twentieth century (onwards).




"Scott here, admiral. Wi' the proper materials--the proper twentieth-century materials--I'll be able to build ye a tank."



"Thank you, Mr. Scott."




Coupled with the known extinction date of the humpback whale, this gives them a pretty solid date range to aim for with their time warp maneuver. Although they had quite a broad range in mind ("late twentieth century"), Spock's calculations turned out to be reasonably accurate. Given that Perspex® has been readily available from the 1960s, presumably he'd have been just as happy with 1975 as 1999.




"Ready to engage computer, admiral," Spock said.



"What's our target in time?" Jim asked.



"The late twentieth century."



"Surely you can be more specific."







share|improve this answer















This is addressed in the film's official novelisation which contains a slightly extended version of Kirk's conversations aboard the Bounty. Mr Scott was making plans to turn the hold into a holding tank, per the Captain's orders, and evidently worked out that he'd need materials from at least the twentieth century (onwards).




"Scott here, admiral. Wi' the proper materials--the proper twentieth-century materials--I'll be able to build ye a tank."



"Thank you, Mr. Scott."




Coupled with the known extinction date of the humpback whale, this gives them a pretty solid date range to aim for with their time warp maneuver. Although they had quite a broad range in mind ("late twentieth century"), Spock's calculations turned out to be reasonably accurate. Given that Perspex® has been readily available from the 1960s, presumably he'd have been just as happy with 1975 as 1999.




"Ready to engage computer, admiral," Spock said.



"What's our target in time?" Jim asked.



"The late twentieth century."



"Surely you can be more specific."








share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Mar 26 at 7:27

























answered Mar 24 at 9:41









ValorumValorum

417k11430383260




417k11430383260







  • 14





    Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:17






  • 1





    @JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 15:18






  • 5





    @Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 20:57











  • @Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 21:05











  • @Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

    – onepound
    Mar 26 at 12:07













  • 14





    Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

    – J Doe
    Mar 25 at 15:17






  • 1





    @JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 15:18






  • 5





    @Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 20:57











  • @Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

    – Valorum
    Mar 25 at 21:05











  • @Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

    – onepound
    Mar 26 at 12:07








14




14





Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

– J Doe
Mar 25 at 15:17





Spock probably wanted to avoid the Eugenics Wars of the late 90s.

– J Doe
Mar 25 at 15:17




1




1





@JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

– Valorum
Mar 25 at 15:18





@JDoe - It's not especially clear how 'hot' those wars were.

– Valorum
Mar 25 at 15:18




5




5





@Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

– Bobby
Mar 25 at 20:57





@Valorum: 40 nations were under the control of the superhumans and 30 million died in the war. So I'd say quite hot.

– Bobby
Mar 25 at 20:57













@Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

– Valorum
Mar 25 at 21:05





@Bobby -Sure, that was the ultimate outcome. The recent comics (not to mention Voyager: Future's End) suggest that the rise of the genetic superman took until the late 1990s at the very least

– Valorum
Mar 25 at 21:05













@Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

– onepound
Mar 26 at 12:07






@Valorum while this answer is well thought out and corresponds to the ideas in the novel, given that they have transporters and therefore replicators which according to the Star Trek universe are very similar technologies (based on matter/energy manipulation), making a sheet of just about anyhting chemical would be trivial especially a simple compound like Perspex. Especially when you think Mr Scott regenerated the dilithium crystals a much more chalenging task. also Perspex is only a trade name for acrylic that's been used much longer than the 70's.

– onepound
Mar 26 at 12:07














20














They had a narrow timeframe that would be useful to them.



  • They needed to arrive late enough that the whale-tank materials they needed to modify the ship would be readily available -- post-1950s. Not just "possible", but in stock locally.

  • They needed an economy robust and entreprenurial enough that their oddball material purchases needs wouldn't pop up any red flags on any government's radar (for instance doing this in the Soviet Union was right out) - so 1950s and up.

  • If they had any problems with the vessel's drive systems (and they did), they needed a modern enough society where technology, electronics, nuclear things, etc. were well-developed and readily available (so 1970s at least, and the later the better!)


  • Whale science needed to be solidly established, with plenty of experts available - because they needed to catch whales, and they had little chance of getting Klingon sensors to tell them the difference between a gray whale and a sperm whale.

    • Even better if culture had become affluent enough that there were aquatic zoos like Sea World, so we're definitely into the 1970s.


  • Preferably, racism (including war sentiments) have declined considerably, so Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Spock will have an easier time, so 1970s and the later the better. It would also help if the Cold War was abating, so 1980s.

  • Can't go later than 1991, because in Trek canon, the Eugenics Wars began.





share|improve this answer























  • There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:23






  • 15





    @M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

    – Harper
    Mar 24 at 18:00






  • 2





    Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

    – vsz
    Mar 25 at 7:12















20














They had a narrow timeframe that would be useful to them.



  • They needed to arrive late enough that the whale-tank materials they needed to modify the ship would be readily available -- post-1950s. Not just "possible", but in stock locally.

  • They needed an economy robust and entreprenurial enough that their oddball material purchases needs wouldn't pop up any red flags on any government's radar (for instance doing this in the Soviet Union was right out) - so 1950s and up.

  • If they had any problems with the vessel's drive systems (and they did), they needed a modern enough society where technology, electronics, nuclear things, etc. were well-developed and readily available (so 1970s at least, and the later the better!)


  • Whale science needed to be solidly established, with plenty of experts available - because they needed to catch whales, and they had little chance of getting Klingon sensors to tell them the difference between a gray whale and a sperm whale.

    • Even better if culture had become affluent enough that there were aquatic zoos like Sea World, so we're definitely into the 1970s.


  • Preferably, racism (including war sentiments) have declined considerably, so Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Spock will have an easier time, so 1970s and the later the better. It would also help if the Cold War was abating, so 1980s.

  • Can't go later than 1991, because in Trek canon, the Eugenics Wars began.





share|improve this answer























  • There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:23






  • 15





    @M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

    – Harper
    Mar 24 at 18:00






  • 2





    Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

    – vsz
    Mar 25 at 7:12













20












20








20







They had a narrow timeframe that would be useful to them.



  • They needed to arrive late enough that the whale-tank materials they needed to modify the ship would be readily available -- post-1950s. Not just "possible", but in stock locally.

  • They needed an economy robust and entreprenurial enough that their oddball material purchases needs wouldn't pop up any red flags on any government's radar (for instance doing this in the Soviet Union was right out) - so 1950s and up.

  • If they had any problems with the vessel's drive systems (and they did), they needed a modern enough society where technology, electronics, nuclear things, etc. were well-developed and readily available (so 1970s at least, and the later the better!)


  • Whale science needed to be solidly established, with plenty of experts available - because they needed to catch whales, and they had little chance of getting Klingon sensors to tell them the difference between a gray whale and a sperm whale.

    • Even better if culture had become affluent enough that there were aquatic zoos like Sea World, so we're definitely into the 1970s.


  • Preferably, racism (including war sentiments) have declined considerably, so Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Spock will have an easier time, so 1970s and the later the better. It would also help if the Cold War was abating, so 1980s.

  • Can't go later than 1991, because in Trek canon, the Eugenics Wars began.





share|improve this answer













They had a narrow timeframe that would be useful to them.



  • They needed to arrive late enough that the whale-tank materials they needed to modify the ship would be readily available -- post-1950s. Not just "possible", but in stock locally.

  • They needed an economy robust and entreprenurial enough that their oddball material purchases needs wouldn't pop up any red flags on any government's radar (for instance doing this in the Soviet Union was right out) - so 1950s and up.

  • If they had any problems with the vessel's drive systems (and they did), they needed a modern enough society where technology, electronics, nuclear things, etc. were well-developed and readily available (so 1970s at least, and the later the better!)


  • Whale science needed to be solidly established, with plenty of experts available - because they needed to catch whales, and they had little chance of getting Klingon sensors to tell them the difference between a gray whale and a sperm whale.

    • Even better if culture had become affluent enough that there were aquatic zoos like Sea World, so we're definitely into the 1970s.


  • Preferably, racism (including war sentiments) have declined considerably, so Uhura, Sulu, Chekov and Spock will have an easier time, so 1970s and the later the better. It would also help if the Cold War was abating, so 1980s.

  • Can't go later than 1991, because in Trek canon, the Eugenics Wars began.






share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Mar 24 at 16:26









HarperHarper

2,0211820




2,0211820












  • There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:23






  • 15





    @M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

    – Harper
    Mar 24 at 18:00






  • 2





    Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

    – vsz
    Mar 25 at 7:12

















  • There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:23






  • 15





    @M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

    – Harper
    Mar 24 at 18:00






  • 2





    Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

    – vsz
    Mar 25 at 7:12
















There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

– M. A. Golding
Mar 24 at 17:23





There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

– M. A. Golding
Mar 24 at 17:23




15




15





@M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

– Harper
Mar 24 at 18:00





@M.A.Golding 1 conceded. 2 the limiting factor is not transparent material but an economy robust enough to not notice or ask questions when somebody wants a bunch of steel, plastic, whatever. The Depression and WWII both made that impossible. 3. Reading books is great for executive briefer summaries, but doesn't even begin to replace a real expert with experience and currency when you're actually doing it.

– Harper
Mar 24 at 18:00




2




2





Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

– vsz
Mar 25 at 7:12





Good point with the availability of materials in bulk. Imagine turning up in Napoleon's time and asking for tons of aluminium. Back then, aluminium was such an expensive novelty that reportedly at a royal banquet only the most distinguished guests got aluminium utensils, the others had to be contented with only getting golden ones.

– vsz
Mar 25 at 7:12











14














To transport the whales the crew used transparent aluminium for their makeshift holding tank which they had to "invent" themselves and produce using 1985 technology which wouldn't have existed in 900 AD.






share|improve this answer


















  • 42





    They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

    – Jon Clements
    Mar 24 at 3:55







  • 1





    Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

    – SpacePhoenix
    Mar 24 at 7:42






  • 17





    This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 8:57







  • 12





    @Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 9:42






  • 8





    @M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 25 at 17:32















14














To transport the whales the crew used transparent aluminium for their makeshift holding tank which they had to "invent" themselves and produce using 1985 technology which wouldn't have existed in 900 AD.






share|improve this answer


















  • 42





    They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

    – Jon Clements
    Mar 24 at 3:55







  • 1





    Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

    – SpacePhoenix
    Mar 24 at 7:42






  • 17





    This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 8:57







  • 12





    @Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 9:42






  • 8





    @M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 25 at 17:32













14












14








14







To transport the whales the crew used transparent aluminium for their makeshift holding tank which they had to "invent" themselves and produce using 1985 technology which wouldn't have existed in 900 AD.






share|improve this answer













To transport the whales the crew used transparent aluminium for their makeshift holding tank which they had to "invent" themselves and produce using 1985 technology which wouldn't have existed in 900 AD.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Mar 24 at 2:28









IG_42IG_42

1,0841914




1,0841914







  • 42





    They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

    – Jon Clements
    Mar 24 at 3:55







  • 1





    Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

    – SpacePhoenix
    Mar 24 at 7:42






  • 17





    This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 8:57







  • 12





    @Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 9:42






  • 8





    @M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 25 at 17:32












  • 42





    They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

    – Jon Clements
    Mar 24 at 3:55







  • 1





    Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

    – SpacePhoenix
    Mar 24 at 7:42






  • 17





    This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 8:57







  • 12





    @Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

    – Valorum
    Mar 24 at 9:42






  • 8





    @M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 25 at 17:32







42




42





They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

– Jon Clements
Mar 24 at 3:55






They used perspex for the tank. They exchanged the information to produce transparent aluminium to acquire it though.

– Jon Clements
Mar 24 at 3:55





1




1





Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

– SpacePhoenix
Mar 24 at 7:42





Knowing the location of the whales on the planet might have been part of the reason, where they were before they were released they were easy to find at a known location and close together which must help when beaming them

– SpacePhoenix
Mar 24 at 7:42




17




17





This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

– Valorum
Mar 24 at 8:57






This answer is straight-up incorrect. The crew swapped the plans for transparent aluminium for a big sheet of perspex.

– Valorum
Mar 24 at 8:57





12




12





@Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

– Valorum
Mar 24 at 9:42





@Bobby - Except that Perspex was invented in the 1930s and would have been available in large sheets from the 1950s onwards.

– Valorum
Mar 24 at 9:42




8




8





@M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

– Lightness Races in Orbit
Mar 25 at 17:32





@M.A.Golding it is necessary to write the same comment under the question and under every single answer? Feel free to write a competing answer that you think is better.

– Lightness Races in Orbit
Mar 25 at 17:32











12














I'm not completely familiar with the "time sling-shot" maneuver, but there are multiple possible reasons for that.



Going further back is dangerous



It might be that ~1980 is roughly the earliest year they can safely travel. Traveling any further back might strain the Bird of Prey (also dubbed "rust bucket") too much and you all might die. Any further into the future and you might not have the chance to encounter whales.



Time travel is not an exact science



From what we can see in the movie they never specify to what year they want to go. Quite the opposite, directly after the jump this dialog happens:




Kirk: Picture, please.



[Picture of Earth appears in the viewscreen.]



Kirk: Earth. But when? Spock?



Spock: Judging by the pollution content of the atmosphere, I believe we have arrived at the latter half of the twentieth century.




So they know how to roughly jump back in time, but they can't target a certain year or period.



Time travel is an exact science



In the TOS episode "Tomorrow is yesterday" the crew of the Enterprise learns the mechanics required to jump through time by accident. They complete a maneuver around a black star which hurls them back into the ~1960s on Earth. At the end, they can execute the same maneuver around Sol to travel back to their time.



Unbeknownst to them, this time travel method might have a fixed time span of roughly ~300 years you can jump backwards and forwards with, as the dates neatly line up. Or maybe they knew about it, but it was never established on screen.



Repairs and Extensions



Last but not least, the Bird of Prey is ill equipped to transport whales. That means that you need the resources to remodel it on the fly in the past. That excludes anything before ~1960 I guess, because since then we have made vast advancements in technology. Additionally, Earth is in a pretty bad shape starting from ~1991 with Eugenic War waging and killing tens of million of people, and undoubtedly binding a lot of resources. So you want to land before that, because afterwards you'd either end up in one of three situations:



  • You can't acquire the resources required because they are not available because of the war.

  • Whales are already extinct.

  • The technology has advanced so far that you have a hard time doing your thing.

With these restrictions in mind, the period around ~1980 sounds like quite a good place to be.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:22






  • 1





    @M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 18:16















12














I'm not completely familiar with the "time sling-shot" maneuver, but there are multiple possible reasons for that.



Going further back is dangerous



It might be that ~1980 is roughly the earliest year they can safely travel. Traveling any further back might strain the Bird of Prey (also dubbed "rust bucket") too much and you all might die. Any further into the future and you might not have the chance to encounter whales.



Time travel is not an exact science



From what we can see in the movie they never specify to what year they want to go. Quite the opposite, directly after the jump this dialog happens:




Kirk: Picture, please.



[Picture of Earth appears in the viewscreen.]



Kirk: Earth. But when? Spock?



Spock: Judging by the pollution content of the atmosphere, I believe we have arrived at the latter half of the twentieth century.




So they know how to roughly jump back in time, but they can't target a certain year or period.



Time travel is an exact science



In the TOS episode "Tomorrow is yesterday" the crew of the Enterprise learns the mechanics required to jump through time by accident. They complete a maneuver around a black star which hurls them back into the ~1960s on Earth. At the end, they can execute the same maneuver around Sol to travel back to their time.



Unbeknownst to them, this time travel method might have a fixed time span of roughly ~300 years you can jump backwards and forwards with, as the dates neatly line up. Or maybe they knew about it, but it was never established on screen.



Repairs and Extensions



Last but not least, the Bird of Prey is ill equipped to transport whales. That means that you need the resources to remodel it on the fly in the past. That excludes anything before ~1960 I guess, because since then we have made vast advancements in technology. Additionally, Earth is in a pretty bad shape starting from ~1991 with Eugenic War waging and killing tens of million of people, and undoubtedly binding a lot of resources. So you want to land before that, because afterwards you'd either end up in one of three situations:



  • You can't acquire the resources required because they are not available because of the war.

  • Whales are already extinct.

  • The technology has advanced so far that you have a hard time doing your thing.

With these restrictions in mind, the period around ~1980 sounds like quite a good place to be.






share|improve this answer


















  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:22






  • 1





    @M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 18:16













12












12








12







I'm not completely familiar with the "time sling-shot" maneuver, but there are multiple possible reasons for that.



Going further back is dangerous



It might be that ~1980 is roughly the earliest year they can safely travel. Traveling any further back might strain the Bird of Prey (also dubbed "rust bucket") too much and you all might die. Any further into the future and you might not have the chance to encounter whales.



Time travel is not an exact science



From what we can see in the movie they never specify to what year they want to go. Quite the opposite, directly after the jump this dialog happens:




Kirk: Picture, please.



[Picture of Earth appears in the viewscreen.]



Kirk: Earth. But when? Spock?



Spock: Judging by the pollution content of the atmosphere, I believe we have arrived at the latter half of the twentieth century.




So they know how to roughly jump back in time, but they can't target a certain year or period.



Time travel is an exact science



In the TOS episode "Tomorrow is yesterday" the crew of the Enterprise learns the mechanics required to jump through time by accident. They complete a maneuver around a black star which hurls them back into the ~1960s on Earth. At the end, they can execute the same maneuver around Sol to travel back to their time.



Unbeknownst to them, this time travel method might have a fixed time span of roughly ~300 years you can jump backwards and forwards with, as the dates neatly line up. Or maybe they knew about it, but it was never established on screen.



Repairs and Extensions



Last but not least, the Bird of Prey is ill equipped to transport whales. That means that you need the resources to remodel it on the fly in the past. That excludes anything before ~1960 I guess, because since then we have made vast advancements in technology. Additionally, Earth is in a pretty bad shape starting from ~1991 with Eugenic War waging and killing tens of million of people, and undoubtedly binding a lot of resources. So you want to land before that, because afterwards you'd either end up in one of three situations:



  • You can't acquire the resources required because they are not available because of the war.

  • Whales are already extinct.

  • The technology has advanced so far that you have a hard time doing your thing.

With these restrictions in mind, the period around ~1980 sounds like quite a good place to be.






share|improve this answer













I'm not completely familiar with the "time sling-shot" maneuver, but there are multiple possible reasons for that.



Going further back is dangerous



It might be that ~1980 is roughly the earliest year they can safely travel. Traveling any further back might strain the Bird of Prey (also dubbed "rust bucket") too much and you all might die. Any further into the future and you might not have the chance to encounter whales.



Time travel is not an exact science



From what we can see in the movie they never specify to what year they want to go. Quite the opposite, directly after the jump this dialog happens:




Kirk: Picture, please.



[Picture of Earth appears in the viewscreen.]



Kirk: Earth. But when? Spock?



Spock: Judging by the pollution content of the atmosphere, I believe we have arrived at the latter half of the twentieth century.




So they know how to roughly jump back in time, but they can't target a certain year or period.



Time travel is an exact science



In the TOS episode "Tomorrow is yesterday" the crew of the Enterprise learns the mechanics required to jump through time by accident. They complete a maneuver around a black star which hurls them back into the ~1960s on Earth. At the end, they can execute the same maneuver around Sol to travel back to their time.



Unbeknownst to them, this time travel method might have a fixed time span of roughly ~300 years you can jump backwards and forwards with, as the dates neatly line up. Or maybe they knew about it, but it was never established on screen.



Repairs and Extensions



Last but not least, the Bird of Prey is ill equipped to transport whales. That means that you need the resources to remodel it on the fly in the past. That excludes anything before ~1960 I guess, because since then we have made vast advancements in technology. Additionally, Earth is in a pretty bad shape starting from ~1991 with Eugenic War waging and killing tens of million of people, and undoubtedly binding a lot of resources. So you want to land before that, because afterwards you'd either end up in one of three situations:



  • You can't acquire the resources required because they are not available because of the war.

  • Whales are already extinct.

  • The technology has advanced so far that you have a hard time doing your thing.

With these restrictions in mind, the period around ~1980 sounds like quite a good place to be.







share|improve this answer












share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer










answered Mar 24 at 9:16









BobbyBobby

2,0551317




2,0551317







  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:22






  • 1





    @M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 18:16












  • 2





    There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

    – M. A. Golding
    Mar 24 at 17:22






  • 1





    @M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

    – Bobby
    Mar 25 at 18:16







2




2





There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

– M. A. Golding
Mar 24 at 17:22





There are flaws with the answers because: 1. It is is may belief that different calendars are used in different productions and thus there is no guarantee that the Eugenics wars happen in the 1990s AD. 2. Transparent material is not necessary for the whale tank; steel will do. 3. Any local library will have books about whales including information about where Humpback whales can be found.

– M. A. Golding
Mar 24 at 17:22




1




1





@M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

– Bobby
Mar 25 at 18:16





@M.A.Golding 1. As far as I know, the calendars for anything before Stardates are the same as ours (though, obviously, a different universe). 2. Yes, but you still need big sheets of steel which are readily available for that (for a private person with no questions asked), means of transport of said sheets and tools to put them into the ship. 3. "Found in oceans and seas around the world, humpback whales typically migrate up to 25,000 km (16,000 mi) each year." Great, so we just have to search all the oceans...also, you are aware the in the ST universe these went extinct somewhen around...now.

– Bobby
Mar 25 at 18:16











10














Spock, master of spin



Spock put a convincing "spin" on his plan when he explained it to Kirk, playing down the margin of error. Just as Scotty learned to pad his estimates when Kirk was likely to make unreasonable demands, Spock knew that Kirk had trouble relying on logic for making dispassionate decisions in scary situations.



Based on the Star Trek IV transcript, Spock determined the earliest date from which they could return. He listed fuel components as a limiting resource:




KIRK: What is our target in time?



SPOCK: Late twentieth century.



KIRK: Surely you can be more specific.



SPOCK: Not with this equipment. I have had to programme some of the
variables from memory.



KIRK: What are some of the variables?



SPOCK: Availability of fuel components, mass of the vessel through a
time continuum, and the probable location of humpback whales, in this
case, the Pacific basin.




A trip deeper into the past would have presumably required a more extreme slingshot maneuver with greater strain on fuel components.



As it turned out, they arrived right on target, so Spock's computations were accurate. Spock's plan broke the ship, but he had a way to fix it:




SCOTT: Admiral, we have a serious problem. Would you please come down?
It's these Klingon crystals, Admiral. The time-travel drained them.
They're giving out. De-crystallising.



KIRK: Give me a round figure, Mister Scott.



SCOTT: Oh, twenty-four hours, give or take, staying cloaked. After
that, Admiral, we're visible, ...and dead in the water. In any case,
we won't have enough to break out of Earth's gravity, to say nothing
of getting back home.



KIRK: I can't believe we've come this far only to be stopped by this!
Is there no way to re-crystallise dilithium?



SCOTT: Sorry, sir. We can't even do that in the twenty-third century.



SPOCK: Admiral, there may be a twentieth century possibility.



KIRK: Explain.



SPOCK: If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear
fission reactors resulting in toxic side effects. By the beginning of
the fusion era, these reactors had been replaced, but at this time, we
may be able to find some.



KIRK: I thought you said they were toxic.



SPOCK: We could construct a device to collect their high-energy
photons safely. These photons could then be injected into the
dilithium chamber, causing crystalline restructure. ...Theoretically.



KIRK: Where would we find these reactors, ...theoretically?



SPOCK: Nuclear power was widely used in naval vessels.




The way Spock immediately offered a solution to their crystal dilemma (the aforementioned "fuel components", it seems), a suspicious person might think that this was part of his original plan.



(I'm tempted to think that Spock simply remembered reading about the Cetacean Institute's humpback whales, couldn't quite recall all of the details due to post-regeneration trauma, and based the entire plan around a hunch.)






share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

    – VBartilucci
    Mar 25 at 18:00











  • Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

    – Matt
    Mar 25 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

    – Mason Wheeler
    Mar 25 at 21:37











  • @Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:12











  • The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:14















10














Spock, master of spin



Spock put a convincing "spin" on his plan when he explained it to Kirk, playing down the margin of error. Just as Scotty learned to pad his estimates when Kirk was likely to make unreasonable demands, Spock knew that Kirk had trouble relying on logic for making dispassionate decisions in scary situations.



Based on the Star Trek IV transcript, Spock determined the earliest date from which they could return. He listed fuel components as a limiting resource:




KIRK: What is our target in time?



SPOCK: Late twentieth century.



KIRK: Surely you can be more specific.



SPOCK: Not with this equipment. I have had to programme some of the
variables from memory.



KIRK: What are some of the variables?



SPOCK: Availability of fuel components, mass of the vessel through a
time continuum, and the probable location of humpback whales, in this
case, the Pacific basin.




A trip deeper into the past would have presumably required a more extreme slingshot maneuver with greater strain on fuel components.



As it turned out, they arrived right on target, so Spock's computations were accurate. Spock's plan broke the ship, but he had a way to fix it:




SCOTT: Admiral, we have a serious problem. Would you please come down?
It's these Klingon crystals, Admiral. The time-travel drained them.
They're giving out. De-crystallising.



KIRK: Give me a round figure, Mister Scott.



SCOTT: Oh, twenty-four hours, give or take, staying cloaked. After
that, Admiral, we're visible, ...and dead in the water. In any case,
we won't have enough to break out of Earth's gravity, to say nothing
of getting back home.



KIRK: I can't believe we've come this far only to be stopped by this!
Is there no way to re-crystallise dilithium?



SCOTT: Sorry, sir. We can't even do that in the twenty-third century.



SPOCK: Admiral, there may be a twentieth century possibility.



KIRK: Explain.



SPOCK: If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear
fission reactors resulting in toxic side effects. By the beginning of
the fusion era, these reactors had been replaced, but at this time, we
may be able to find some.



KIRK: I thought you said they were toxic.



SPOCK: We could construct a device to collect their high-energy
photons safely. These photons could then be injected into the
dilithium chamber, causing crystalline restructure. ...Theoretically.



KIRK: Where would we find these reactors, ...theoretically?



SPOCK: Nuclear power was widely used in naval vessels.




The way Spock immediately offered a solution to their crystal dilemma (the aforementioned "fuel components", it seems), a suspicious person might think that this was part of his original plan.



(I'm tempted to think that Spock simply remembered reading about the Cetacean Institute's humpback whales, couldn't quite recall all of the details due to post-regeneration trauma, and based the entire plan around a hunch.)






share|improve this answer




















  • 2





    The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

    – VBartilucci
    Mar 25 at 18:00











  • Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

    – Matt
    Mar 25 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

    – Mason Wheeler
    Mar 25 at 21:37











  • @Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:12











  • The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:14













10












10








10







Spock, master of spin



Spock put a convincing "spin" on his plan when he explained it to Kirk, playing down the margin of error. Just as Scotty learned to pad his estimates when Kirk was likely to make unreasonable demands, Spock knew that Kirk had trouble relying on logic for making dispassionate decisions in scary situations.



Based on the Star Trek IV transcript, Spock determined the earliest date from which they could return. He listed fuel components as a limiting resource:




KIRK: What is our target in time?



SPOCK: Late twentieth century.



KIRK: Surely you can be more specific.



SPOCK: Not with this equipment. I have had to programme some of the
variables from memory.



KIRK: What are some of the variables?



SPOCK: Availability of fuel components, mass of the vessel through a
time continuum, and the probable location of humpback whales, in this
case, the Pacific basin.




A trip deeper into the past would have presumably required a more extreme slingshot maneuver with greater strain on fuel components.



As it turned out, they arrived right on target, so Spock's computations were accurate. Spock's plan broke the ship, but he had a way to fix it:




SCOTT: Admiral, we have a serious problem. Would you please come down?
It's these Klingon crystals, Admiral. The time-travel drained them.
They're giving out. De-crystallising.



KIRK: Give me a round figure, Mister Scott.



SCOTT: Oh, twenty-four hours, give or take, staying cloaked. After
that, Admiral, we're visible, ...and dead in the water. In any case,
we won't have enough to break out of Earth's gravity, to say nothing
of getting back home.



KIRK: I can't believe we've come this far only to be stopped by this!
Is there no way to re-crystallise dilithium?



SCOTT: Sorry, sir. We can't even do that in the twenty-third century.



SPOCK: Admiral, there may be a twentieth century possibility.



KIRK: Explain.



SPOCK: If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear
fission reactors resulting in toxic side effects. By the beginning of
the fusion era, these reactors had been replaced, but at this time, we
may be able to find some.



KIRK: I thought you said they were toxic.



SPOCK: We could construct a device to collect their high-energy
photons safely. These photons could then be injected into the
dilithium chamber, causing crystalline restructure. ...Theoretically.



KIRK: Where would we find these reactors, ...theoretically?



SPOCK: Nuclear power was widely used in naval vessels.




The way Spock immediately offered a solution to their crystal dilemma (the aforementioned "fuel components", it seems), a suspicious person might think that this was part of his original plan.



(I'm tempted to think that Spock simply remembered reading about the Cetacean Institute's humpback whales, couldn't quite recall all of the details due to post-regeneration trauma, and based the entire plan around a hunch.)






share|improve this answer















Spock, master of spin



Spock put a convincing "spin" on his plan when he explained it to Kirk, playing down the margin of error. Just as Scotty learned to pad his estimates when Kirk was likely to make unreasonable demands, Spock knew that Kirk had trouble relying on logic for making dispassionate decisions in scary situations.



Based on the Star Trek IV transcript, Spock determined the earliest date from which they could return. He listed fuel components as a limiting resource:




KIRK: What is our target in time?



SPOCK: Late twentieth century.



KIRK: Surely you can be more specific.



SPOCK: Not with this equipment. I have had to programme some of the
variables from memory.



KIRK: What are some of the variables?



SPOCK: Availability of fuel components, mass of the vessel through a
time continuum, and the probable location of humpback whales, in this
case, the Pacific basin.




A trip deeper into the past would have presumably required a more extreme slingshot maneuver with greater strain on fuel components.



As it turned out, they arrived right on target, so Spock's computations were accurate. Spock's plan broke the ship, but he had a way to fix it:




SCOTT: Admiral, we have a serious problem. Would you please come down?
It's these Klingon crystals, Admiral. The time-travel drained them.
They're giving out. De-crystallising.



KIRK: Give me a round figure, Mister Scott.



SCOTT: Oh, twenty-four hours, give or take, staying cloaked. After
that, Admiral, we're visible, ...and dead in the water. In any case,
we won't have enough to break out of Earth's gravity, to say nothing
of getting back home.



KIRK: I can't believe we've come this far only to be stopped by this!
Is there no way to re-crystallise dilithium?



SCOTT: Sorry, sir. We can't even do that in the twenty-third century.



SPOCK: Admiral, there may be a twentieth century possibility.



KIRK: Explain.



SPOCK: If memory serves, there was a dubious flirtation with nuclear
fission reactors resulting in toxic side effects. By the beginning of
the fusion era, these reactors had been replaced, but at this time, we
may be able to find some.



KIRK: I thought you said they were toxic.



SPOCK: We could construct a device to collect their high-energy
photons safely. These photons could then be injected into the
dilithium chamber, causing crystalline restructure. ...Theoretically.



KIRK: Where would we find these reactors, ...theoretically?



SPOCK: Nuclear power was widely used in naval vessels.




The way Spock immediately offered a solution to their crystal dilemma (the aforementioned "fuel components", it seems), a suspicious person might think that this was part of his original plan.



(I'm tempted to think that Spock simply remembered reading about the Cetacean Institute's humpback whales, couldn't quite recall all of the details due to post-regeneration trauma, and based the entire plan around a hunch.)







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Mar 25 at 15:31

























answered Mar 25 at 7:57









GaultheriaGaultheria

10.4k13059




10.4k13059







  • 2





    The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

    – VBartilucci
    Mar 25 at 18:00











  • Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

    – Matt
    Mar 25 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

    – Mason Wheeler
    Mar 25 at 21:37











  • @Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:12











  • The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:14












  • 2





    The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

    – VBartilucci
    Mar 25 at 18:00











  • Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

    – Matt
    Mar 25 at 21:13






  • 1





    @Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

    – Mason Wheeler
    Mar 25 at 21:37











  • @Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:12











  • The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

    – RobertF
    Mar 29 at 15:14







2




2





The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

– VBartilucci
Mar 25 at 18:00





The film seems to suggest that the search for the whales was going to be rather haphazard, and that the discovery of the cetacean institute, and of George and Gracie therein, was the kind of blind luck that only happens in the movies. The odds of Spock having read about a place several centuries in the past seems even less likely than luckily noticing the billboard.

– VBartilucci
Mar 25 at 18:00













Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

– Matt
Mar 25 at 21:13





Until I read this answer I didn't notice that there is a massive plot hole with the whole ST series - if they can use a nuclear reactor to recrystallize dilithium (in theory) then why is this never done in the future? and whats the need to mine this material (that cant be replicated) if it can be recrystallized with a simple nuclear reactor? they have force fields so future reactors would pose little risk. Someone should ask that one

– Matt
Mar 25 at 21:13




1




1





@Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

– Mason Wheeler
Mar 25 at 21:37





@Matt This is only a plot hole if de-crystallized dilithium is abundant and it's only scarce in its proper crystalline form. I'm not aware of any canonical indication that this is the case.

– Mason Wheeler
Mar 25 at 21:37













@Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

– RobertF
Mar 29 at 15:12





@Matt I've never come across decrystallization of dilithium even being a problem in Star Trek except in this film. Who knows, perhaps the recrystallization process using a fission reactor is only a temporary solution and then the dilithium crystals are permanently damaged?

– RobertF
Mar 29 at 15:12













The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

– RobertF
Mar 29 at 15:14





The crew also had another option for fixing the dilithium: contact the Vulcans (who had warp technology in the 20th century) and ask for help.

– RobertF
Mar 29 at 15:14

















draft saved

draft discarded
















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f207777%2fin-star-trek-iv-why-did-the-bounty-go-back-to-a-time-when-whales-were-already-r%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Færeyskur hestur Heimild | Tengill | Tilvísanir | LeiðsagnarvalRossið - síða um færeyska hrossið á færeyskuGott ár hjá færeyska hestinum

He _____ here since 1970 . Answer needed [closed]What does “since he was so high” mean?Meaning of “catch birds for”?How do I ensure “since” takes the meaning I want?“Who cares here” meaningWhat does “right round toward” mean?the time tense (had now been detected)What does the phrase “ring around the roses” mean here?Correct usage of “visited upon”Meaning of “foiled rail sabotage bid”It was the third time I had gone to Rome or It is the third time I had been to Rome

Slayer Innehåll Historia | Stil, komposition och lyrik | Bandets betydelse och framgångar | Sidoprojekt och samarbeten | Kontroverser | Medlemmar | Utmärkelser och nomineringar | Turnéer och festivaler | Diskografi | Referenser | Externa länkar | Navigeringsmenywww.slayer.net”Metal Massacre vol. 1””Metal Massacre vol. 3””Metal Massacre Volume III””Show No Mercy””Haunting the Chapel””Live Undead””Hell Awaits””Reign in Blood””Reign in Blood””Gold & Platinum – Reign in Blood””Golden Gods Awards Winners”originalet”Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Looks Back On 37-Year Career In New Video Series: Part Two””South of Heaven””Gold & Platinum – South of Heaven””Seasons in the Abyss””Gold & Platinum - Seasons in the Abyss””Divine Intervention””Divine Intervention - Release group by Slayer””Gold & Platinum - Divine Intervention””Live Intrusion””Undisputed Attitude””Abolish Government/Superficial Love””Release “Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer” by Various Artists””Diabolus in Musica””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””God Hates Us All””Systematic - Relationships””War at the Warfield””Gold & Platinum - War at the Warfield””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””Gold & Platinum - Still Reigning””Metallica, Slayer, Iron Mauden Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Eternal Pyre””Eternal Pyre - Slayer release group””Eternal Pyre””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Bullet-For My Valentine booed at Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Unholy Aliance””The End Of Slayer?””Slayer: We Could Thrash Out Two More Albums If We're Fast Enough...””'The Unholy Alliance: Chapter III' UK Dates Added”originalet”Megadeth And Slayer To Co-Headline 'Canadian Carnage' Trek”originalet”World Painted Blood””Release “World Painted Blood” by Slayer””Metallica Heading To Cinemas””Slayer, Megadeth To Join Forces For 'European Carnage' Tour - Dec. 18, 2010”originalet”Slayer's Hanneman Contracts Acute Infection; Band To Bring In Guest Guitarist””Cannibal Corpse's Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer's Guest Guitarist”originalet”Slayer’s Jeff Hanneman Dead at 49””Dave Lombardo Says He Made Only $67,000 In 2011 While Touring With Slayer””Slayer: We Do Not Agree With Dave Lombardo's Substance Or Timeline Of Events””Slayer Welcomes Drummer Paul Bostaph Back To The Fold””Slayer Hope to Unveil Never-Before-Heard Jeff Hanneman Material on Next Album””Slayer Debut New Song 'Implode' During Surprise Golden Gods Appearance””Release group Repentless by Slayer””Repentless - Slayer - Credits””Slayer””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer - to release comic book "Repentless #1"””Slayer To Release 'Repentless' 6.66" Vinyl Box Set””BREAKING NEWS: Slayer Announce Farewell Tour””Slayer Recruit Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth + Testament for Final Tour””Slayer lägger ner efter 37 år””Slayer Announces Second North American Leg Of 'Final' Tour””Final World Tour””Slayer Announces Final European Tour With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Tour Europe With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Play 'Last French Show Ever' At Next Year's Hellfst””Slayer's Final World Tour Will Extend Into 2019””Death Angel's Rob Cavestany On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour: 'Some Of Us Could See This Coming'””Testament Has No Plans To Retire Anytime Soon, Says Chuck Billy””Anthrax's Scott Ian On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour Plans: 'I Was Surprised And I Wasn't Surprised'””Slayer””Slayer's Morbid Schlock””Review/Rock; For Slayer, the Mania Is the Message””Slayer - Biography””Slayer - Reign In Blood”originalet”Dave Lombardo””An exclusive oral history of Slayer”originalet”Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman”originalet”Thinking Out Loud: Slayer's Kerry King on hair metal, Satan and being polite””Slayer Lyrics””Slayer - Biography””Most influential artists for extreme metal music””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dies aged 49””Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer””Gateway to Hell: A Tribute to Slayer””Covered In Blood””Slayer: The Origins of Thrash in San Francisco, CA.””Why They Rule - #6 Slayer”originalet”Guitar World's 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All Time”originalet”The fans have spoken: Slayer comes out on top in readers' polls”originalet”Tribute to Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)””Lamb Of God Frontman: We Sound Like A Slayer Rip-Off””BEHEMOTH Frontman Pays Tribute To SLAYER's JEFF HANNEMAN””Slayer, Hatebreed Doing Double Duty On This Year's Ozzfest””System of a Down””Lacuna Coil’s Andrea Ferro Talks Influences, Skateboarding, Band Origins + More””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Into The Lungs of Hell””Slayer rules - en utställning om fans””Slayer and Their Fans Slashed Through a No-Holds-Barred Night at Gas Monkey””Home””Slayer””Gold & Platinum - The Big 4 Live from Sofia, Bulgaria””Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Kerry King””2008-02-23: Wiltern, Los Angeles, CA, USA””Slayer's Kerry King To Perform With Megadeth Tonight! - Oct. 21, 2010”originalet”Dave Lombardo - Biography”Slayer Case DismissedArkiveradUltimate Classic Rock: Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dead at 49.”Slayer: "We could never do any thing like Some Kind Of Monster..."””Cannibal Corpse'S Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer'S Guest Guitarist | The Official Slayer Site”originalet”Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Kerrang! Awards 2006 Blog: Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Kerrang! Awards 2013: Kerrang! Legend”originalet”Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maien Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Bullet For My Valentine Booed At Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer's Concert History””Slayer - Relationships””Slayer - Releases”Slayers officiella webbplatsSlayer på MusicBrainzOfficiell webbplatsSlayerSlayerr1373445760000 0001 1540 47353068615-5086262726cb13906545x(data)6033143kn20030215029