Everything Bob says is false. How does he get people to trust him?
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I was looking at the questions where Everything Joe says is true and I thought it would be interesting to explore the inverse superpower.
Bob isn't just a pathological liar, but if he says a true statement, the fabric of reality will be altered to make his statement false in some way. This takes the path of least resistance and will alter as little as possible to make his statements observably false, so for instance if he states that you scored 99/100 on a test (and you did), your score would suddenly become 98 or 100. If Bob states a paradox, nothing happens. People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes. In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist. As an additional limitation, any statement that, if false, would harm himself or another human is nullified. He also cannot affect his own memory, personality, or desires through a falsified statement.
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
The problem is that it's hard to get anyone to trust you when you have a track record of only saying lies and nobody ever believes you. How does Bob build any sort of meaningful relationship of trust with anyone?
super-powers
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I was looking at the questions where Everything Joe says is true and I thought it would be interesting to explore the inverse superpower.
Bob isn't just a pathological liar, but if he says a true statement, the fabric of reality will be altered to make his statement false in some way. This takes the path of least resistance and will alter as little as possible to make his statements observably false, so for instance if he states that you scored 99/100 on a test (and you did), your score would suddenly become 98 or 100. If Bob states a paradox, nothing happens. People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes. In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist. As an additional limitation, any statement that, if false, would harm himself or another human is nullified. He also cannot affect his own memory, personality, or desires through a falsified statement.
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
The problem is that it's hard to get anyone to trust you when you have a track record of only saying lies and nobody ever believes you. How does Bob build any sort of meaningful relationship of trust with anyone?
super-powers
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– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
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Why can't he state that "you didn't score 99/100 on a test" (although you did), then nothing changes, and everyone who knows Bob would eventually get to know that what he says is true, you just have to remove one negation?
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– Headcrab
2 hours ago
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How far is 'statements' taken in your question? If Bob doesn't talk, but brings flowers to a girl every day, gesturing (no ASL, just, you know, pointing and stuff) his great admiration and love for her, would that be a 'statement' of 'I love you' (with reality conspiring to make that untrue(however that would work with your caveats about memory, personality, etc))?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
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So what would happen if he is suicidal and says, "the sun exists"?
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– Gnudiff
1 hour ago
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@Gnudiff I hope it would be as simple as us using it's name (Sol) instead of "the sun"
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– Baldrickk
26 mins ago
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show 1 more comment
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I was looking at the questions where Everything Joe says is true and I thought it would be interesting to explore the inverse superpower.
Bob isn't just a pathological liar, but if he says a true statement, the fabric of reality will be altered to make his statement false in some way. This takes the path of least resistance and will alter as little as possible to make his statements observably false, so for instance if he states that you scored 99/100 on a test (and you did), your score would suddenly become 98 or 100. If Bob states a paradox, nothing happens. People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes. In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist. As an additional limitation, any statement that, if false, would harm himself or another human is nullified. He also cannot affect his own memory, personality, or desires through a falsified statement.
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
The problem is that it's hard to get anyone to trust you when you have a track record of only saying lies and nobody ever believes you. How does Bob build any sort of meaningful relationship of trust with anyone?
super-powers
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I was looking at the questions where Everything Joe says is true and I thought it would be interesting to explore the inverse superpower.
Bob isn't just a pathological liar, but if he says a true statement, the fabric of reality will be altered to make his statement false in some way. This takes the path of least resistance and will alter as little as possible to make his statements observably false, so for instance if he states that you scored 99/100 on a test (and you did), your score would suddenly become 98 or 100. If Bob states a paradox, nothing happens. People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes. In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist. As an additional limitation, any statement that, if false, would harm himself or another human is nullified. He also cannot affect his own memory, personality, or desires through a falsified statement.
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
The problem is that it's hard to get anyone to trust you when you have a track record of only saying lies and nobody ever believes you. How does Bob build any sort of meaningful relationship of trust with anyone?
super-powers
super-powers
asked 14 hours ago
BeefsterBeefster
497414
497414
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– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
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Why can't he state that "you didn't score 99/100 on a test" (although you did), then nothing changes, and everyone who knows Bob would eventually get to know that what he says is true, you just have to remove one negation?
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– Headcrab
2 hours ago
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How far is 'statements' taken in your question? If Bob doesn't talk, but brings flowers to a girl every day, gesturing (no ASL, just, you know, pointing and stuff) his great admiration and love for her, would that be a 'statement' of 'I love you' (with reality conspiring to make that untrue(however that would work with your caveats about memory, personality, etc))?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
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So what would happen if he is suicidal and says, "the sun exists"?
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– Gnudiff
1 hour ago
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@Gnudiff I hope it would be as simple as us using it's name (Sol) instead of "the sun"
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– Baldrickk
26 mins ago
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show 1 more comment
1
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Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
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– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
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Why can't he state that "you didn't score 99/100 on a test" (although you did), then nothing changes, and everyone who knows Bob would eventually get to know that what he says is true, you just have to remove one negation?
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– Headcrab
2 hours ago
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How far is 'statements' taken in your question? If Bob doesn't talk, but brings flowers to a girl every day, gesturing (no ASL, just, you know, pointing and stuff) his great admiration and love for her, would that be a 'statement' of 'I love you' (with reality conspiring to make that untrue(however that would work with your caveats about memory, personality, etc))?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
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So what would happen if he is suicidal and says, "the sun exists"?
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– Gnudiff
1 hour ago
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@Gnudiff I hope it would be as simple as us using it's name (Sol) instead of "the sun"
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– Baldrickk
26 mins ago
1
1
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Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
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– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
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Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
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– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
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Why can't he state that "you didn't score 99/100 on a test" (although you did), then nothing changes, and everyone who knows Bob would eventually get to know that what he says is true, you just have to remove one negation?
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– Headcrab
2 hours ago
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Why can't he state that "you didn't score 99/100 on a test" (although you did), then nothing changes, and everyone who knows Bob would eventually get to know that what he says is true, you just have to remove one negation?
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– Headcrab
2 hours ago
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How far is 'statements' taken in your question? If Bob doesn't talk, but brings flowers to a girl every day, gesturing (no ASL, just, you know, pointing and stuff) his great admiration and love for her, would that be a 'statement' of 'I love you' (with reality conspiring to make that untrue(however that would work with your caveats about memory, personality, etc))?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
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How far is 'statements' taken in your question? If Bob doesn't talk, but brings flowers to a girl every day, gesturing (no ASL, just, you know, pointing and stuff) his great admiration and love for her, would that be a 'statement' of 'I love you' (with reality conspiring to make that untrue(however that would work with your caveats about memory, personality, etc))?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
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So what would happen if he is suicidal and says, "the sun exists"?
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– Gnudiff
1 hour ago
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So what would happen if he is suicidal and says, "the sun exists"?
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– Gnudiff
1 hour ago
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@Gnudiff I hope it would be as simple as us using it's name (Sol) instead of "the sun"
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– Baldrickk
26 mins ago
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@Gnudiff I hope it would be as simple as us using it's name (Sol) instead of "the sun"
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– Baldrickk
26 mins ago
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19 Answers
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There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
Bob wants actually to state things not as simply as possible, since as you mentioned, this leads to several possible outcomes. He wants to state things as precise as possible.
"My net worth is at most 10 dollars", has the logical (and only possible) opposite "My net worth is more than 10 dollars" (and Bob will have net worth of 10.01 dollars if taking the path least resistance).
"The set of people who distrusts me is non empty" has opposite "The set of people who distrusts me is empty", i.e. no one distrusts Bob...
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Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
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– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
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This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
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You misunderstand trust: I trust Bob completely.
A lack of trust comes from unpredictability and betrayal. Bob hasn't betrayed me because I trust him completely: he will always speak falsely. Frankly, that makes him a great deal more honest than many people I know, people whose honesty is unpredictable and therefore untrustworthy.
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. — Jack Sparrow
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My thoughts exactly.
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– goblin
4 hours ago
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There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
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That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
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– David
14 hours ago
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@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
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– Mołot
14 hours ago
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Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
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– David
14 hours ago
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This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
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– Dylan
12 hours ago
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@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
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– scohe001
11 hours ago
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Easy. Bob can gain people's trust through his actions. If he acts to help people, that will show he's trustworthy.
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Just keep [not] talking.
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– Mazura
7 hours ago
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'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
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– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
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Don't Talk
"I have, at most, level 4 ASLPI proficiency level."
Then Bob can just play deaf. And if necessary, make himself temporarily deaf. Communicate with sign language, or writing if necessary. But it may not be necessary, since he can just tell someone that they are not sign proficient either.
Bob, the pessimistic super doctor
Work in a hospital. Always complain. "This patient won't survive." "That will leave scar." "It will take at least five hours of physical therapy before she can walk again." "You have cancer."
So no-one will trust what Dr. Bob says. But they will trust that he can save any patient, cure any illness.
Beyond that, go into the labs and complain that their research isn't ready. "YOu haven't finished your cure for the cold." "It only works on specific strains of the virus." "It has side effects." "It takes multiple doses." "It takes more than a day to work." "It costs more than 5 dollars to manufacture a dose." "It doesn't taste like chocolate."
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With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
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– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
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@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
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– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
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I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
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– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
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Pretend he's mute, keep his mouth shut and write everything down.
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11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
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– Agrajag
10 hours ago
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This is the correct answer ;)
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– Bob
9 hours ago
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If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
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– Mazura
7 hours ago
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Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
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– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
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My answer assumes that Bob can not predict HOW things will change, just that they will change, in subtle ways. Also, I am assuming that Bob can and will voluntarily answer your questions. I am also assuming that this works for any PREDICTIONS Bob makes. That is, any prediction that he makes will never be true. I am also assuming that Bob, in god faith, can tell the truth as it was at the time of him saying it.
I am not sure if the issue is in not being able to trust that the answer Bob gives you is the truth, but in being able to absolutely trust that the answer Bob gives you is NOT the truth.
If a betting man knew that Bob's answer could always be trusted to ultimately NOT be true, then a betting man could make a lot of money.
'Bob, what team will win the Series?' Then bet AGAINST the team he says. 'I will bet you that your favorite team x will NOT win the Series'. 'Oh, come ON, they are sure to win the series. You're ON, man, you're ON'.
Of course, a person with criminal intent would WANT him to tell the truth, so that it would become the UNtruth.
'Bob, try that door and tell me if it is locked?' In which case, you WANT him to tell the truth, that it is locked, so that it then becomes the UNtruth.
'Bob, is that watchman who is looking at us paying attention to us?'
'Bob, is that merchant charging for his goods?'
'Bob, will you tell the judge the truth about my guilt?' It doesn't matter if the judge believes him or not, but as soon as Bob says I am guilty, I am no longer guilty.
It would seem to me, that the utility and the advantage of having Bob as a friend would not be in what Bob says is the truth, but what HAPPENS in response to his telling the truth. That it reliably and immediately becomes the UNtruth in some way.
In day to day conversations as a friend, one could easily accommodate his eccentricities, if one knew absolutely that whatever he said, even if said in good faith, would be wrong.
'Bob, how much money do you have?' Bob: 'I have ten dollars'. So, if Bob answered truthfully in good faith, you know he has approximately ten dollars, but not exactly ten dollars.
'Bob, what time is it?' Bob: 'It is ten o'clock'. So again, if Bob is answering truthfully in good faith, and tells you the correct time, then you know it is AROUND ten o'clock but not exactly ten o'clock.
If he always answers with an approximate answer, that is close to the truth, you of course can always accommodate. The trick is to learn to ask Bob the question in the right way.
So those who perhaps find utility in Bob, and want to capitalize on his powers, but also want to have a good relationship with him on good faith, would have no problems as long as they always knew his good-faith answers were APPROXIMATE answers, and his devious faith answers were always the truth as he knew it at the time of his response. You and Bob would know the answer would be immediately incorrect as soon as he gave the response.
And, of course, there is the situations along the lines of: Bob: 'I need to go to the bathroom right now' means that, if it were the truth, Bob NO LONGER has to go to the bathroom right now, but he WILL have to go to the bathroom AGAIN (is that the right term) shortly.
in such a way, as long as the other person wanted to have a relationship with Bob, and Bob always responded in good faith with the truth, but both of you knew it was no longer the truth but approximately the truth, the relationship would work out.
So, really, it is about how much the OTHER person wants to have a good relationship with Bob, and is willing to accommodate, provided Bob enters the relationship in good faith.
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When Bob wants to communicate, he doesn't make statements. He asks questions that lead people to the correct conclusions or uses imperatives.
Mr. X: Bob, what is behind this door?
Bob: Would you believe there's a
tiger behind the door? Don't open the door.
Mr. X: Bob, where's the report you were supposed to hand in?
Bob: Where would you expect it to be?
Mr. X: On my desk in my in-box.
Bob: It's not there. Or is it?
Mr. X: Bob, why do you always ask questions instead of directly
telling what you want?
Bob: Hypothetically, if an honest person was
incapable of making a true statement because of a cursed super-power,
how do you think such a person would communicate?
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This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
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– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
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It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
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– Michael
4 mins ago
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You kind of answered your own question, he can't remove this superpower by stating he has it so he can go up to anyone, explain the way the power works and then demonstrate it using some easy cases. People will be skeptical at first but will believe him after enough convincing examples.
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People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.
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– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
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@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
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– Muuski
12 hours ago
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Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
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– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
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@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
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– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
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It is really simple.
Don't try to make them believe you. Always tell the lie that they won't believe to get them to realize the truth.
If your friend asks if you want to head out to dinner and you do, actually want to, say "no." Your friend will know that you can't tell the truth and know what you are saying.
Once enough people know about the power, everyone will know that he has to speak that way.
Also, he would be in high demand for anything that requires safety.
Any time he gets on an airplane, all he has to say is "this plane will not land safely."
He can be the benevolent doomsayer.
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But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
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– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
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Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
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– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
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How linguistically savvy is this superpower? How linguistically savvy is Bob?
I'm assuming here that Bob wants to communicate the truth and wants to be trusted. I'm also going to be treating the superpower as an antagonist to this goal.
If the superpower can recognize the intent of his statements and will change the truth of the part he intends to communicate, he's kind of stuck (although maria_c's answer is a good one for getting as close as possible to the truth).
If, however, the superpower only analyzes his statements in terms of syntax and semantics, Bob can work around the limitation in various ways.
First, he can use questions instead of statements. While declarative sentences have a truth value (as long as they aren't paradoxes), interrogative sentences do not. So if he wanted to tell you that Madrid is the capital of Spain, he could ask you "Did you know that Madrid is the capital of Spain?"
Second, he could always tell you what he wants you to know in a content clause. This will still involve a declarative sentence, but by selecting the main clause carefully he can make a sentence that is already false (and therefore exempt from the power), but that nevertheless has a true content clause. For example: "No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain." People already know that Madrid is the capital of Spain, therefore the statement is false. It can't be further falsified and the superpower won't touch it.
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"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
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– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
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That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
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– MacA
12 hours ago
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The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
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– MacA
11 hours ago
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@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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NOTE: This answer assumes Bob cannot make people trust him simply by saying "You don't trust me".
It's very easy to get people to trust him. Simply announce in a loud voice the opposite of what you want and soon people will pick up that the opposite will happen. If you want people to notice faster do it in a casino.
It will take some time to fine-tune what to say, but this is essentially a wish granting power. You just have to phrase it a little weird.
Your friends will all want you to say things like
My company's value will go down
Or
It'll land on black
Or
Your marriage won't last
Several economic indicators are like this. Things like more stocks being issued (IPOs) and more credit being available happens before a stock market crash. People watch these and try to time the market (but rarely succeed).
The real curse is to say the truth but have no one believe you like Cassandra
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"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
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– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
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But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In @KaspervandenBerg 's answer:
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
due to least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
I propose this:
You trust me less than you trust everyone else.
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Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
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– Wildcard
12 hours ago
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@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
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– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
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@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
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– Wildcard
12 hours ago
1
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This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
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– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In a computer game "Divinity: Original Sin II" there was one character, a talking mouse, who was cursed and as a result could only tell lies. When you meet him, he wants you to remove the curse, but, of course, he can't simply tell you about it, because that would be the truth he cannot tell. So he simply reverses everything and says something like "I am not a mouse. I don't have this curse that makes me always tell a lie. I don't think you could help me and remove the curse by doing so and so... Doing so and so. It wouldn't help. Got it?" Can't your Bob just do the same?
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob can be a superhero and become rich really easy.
All he needs to do is to spread conspiracy theories.
Bob says the Earth is flat. The Earth assumes a spherical geometry. Had Bob not used his power, we would eventually be suffocated by the giant elephants' magical freezing farts which keep the frozen barrier st the rim in place, or we would eventually be smashed by the cosmic turtle's sexual partner.
Bob says aliens are abducting people and probing their cavities. Now the aliens can't do that - Bob is a one man X-com!
Bob says planes leave out chemtrails that are used for mind control. Now they don't anymore! Take that, Illuminatti!
And so on. The only conspiracy theories he can't defeat are vaccine and GMO related ones, because those can actually cause direct harm to people.
So most everyone from the average Joe to the eggheads of our time will not trust Bob, but that's not a problem. He will have the undisputed and unwavering trust and loyalty of basically every Infowars follower. He can even take over Alex Jones's place and make huge loads of cash that way.
Heck, Bob could even easily become the next republican president, and he would save the world from climate change by claiming that coal is cleaner than solar and wind power.
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1
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Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Simple, there's a class of people that do similar all the time: Be a denialist speaker.
Many people will believe what's most convenient if it's said with authority and minimal requirement for thinking or action on their part. Just look at flat earthers, climate deniers, anti-vaxxers, and similar.
Just support wrong things with momentum, and everything suppporting that wrong thing will believe him.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Couldn't Bob simply tell someone he meets like some girl he likes very much and after many different machinations and presumed falsehoods he'd say something like "You simply do not understand me" by accident? In that way someone actually WOULD understand Bob's superpower without being harmed? Then communication could be carried out albeit in a very curiously and perhaps very humorous way. Just a thought.
It would be interesting to have a scene of an argument between Joe and Bob perhaps... I don't know how you'd do it but it could amount to a superpower Abbot and Costello routine.
New contributor
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Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
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– Alexander
12 hours ago
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The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
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– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
He lies all the time. Even if says the truth, it changes to an untruth because he said it. So, the truth is something that is not a fact when he says it is. What he says is either a lie or about to be a lie. But he wants to build people’s trust. He begins by speaking only about the trifle things. It will be noticed that Bob’s lies do not touch anything that should be unchanged because the benefits of everyone who Bob wants to trust him depend on it. He learns to know what benefits people and stays away from mentioning those things. He must be very careful, for any of his statement can catch the fringes of the important and shift it. Other than that, he can speak lies as much as he wants. About the things that they have no idea of, for example. He earns people’s trust into a fact that he would never speak about the important things. What Bod is talking about is not important. They can take it to the bank. Once they think so, he can return and attack benefits. There is nothing important now, for he seems to speaks about everything. Either an unimportant thing is true or false does not make difference under a certain point. The only thing they know for sure that Bob would never speak about it if it would be of any importance. The only thing that is left true is Bob.
New contributor
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Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
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– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob says a variation of
"[Person's name] doesn't know about my inability to tell the truth"
Then his power will kick in and cause that person to know about Bob's power somehow. Bob can work out the exact phrasing with trial and error.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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19 Answers
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$begingroup$
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
Bob wants actually to state things not as simply as possible, since as you mentioned, this leads to several possible outcomes. He wants to state things as precise as possible.
"My net worth is at most 10 dollars", has the logical (and only possible) opposite "My net worth is more than 10 dollars" (and Bob will have net worth of 10.01 dollars if taking the path least resistance).
"The set of people who distrusts me is non empty" has opposite "The set of people who distrusts me is empty", i.e. no one distrusts Bob...
New contributor
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3
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Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
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@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
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– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
Bob wants actually to state things not as simply as possible, since as you mentioned, this leads to several possible outcomes. He wants to state things as precise as possible.
"My net worth is at most 10 dollars", has the logical (and only possible) opposite "My net worth is more than 10 dollars" (and Bob will have net worth of 10.01 dollars if taking the path least resistance).
"The set of people who distrusts me is non empty" has opposite "The set of people who distrusts me is empty", i.e. no one distrusts Bob...
New contributor
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
$endgroup$
– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
Bob wants actually to state things not as simply as possible, since as you mentioned, this leads to several possible outcomes. He wants to state things as precise as possible.
"My net worth is at most 10 dollars", has the logical (and only possible) opposite "My net worth is more than 10 dollars" (and Bob will have net worth of 10.01 dollars if taking the path least resistance).
"The set of people who distrusts me is non empty" has opposite "The set of people who distrusts me is empty", i.e. no one distrusts Bob...
New contributor
$endgroup$
There are ways to manipulate this in his favor, such as stating the opposite of what he wants in the simplest way possible, but because as little as possible is changed, this can be tricky in some cases since only one detail of his statement must be false in order to render the entire statement technically false.
Bob wants actually to state things not as simply as possible, since as you mentioned, this leads to several possible outcomes. He wants to state things as precise as possible.
"My net worth is at most 10 dollars", has the logical (and only possible) opposite "My net worth is more than 10 dollars" (and Bob will have net worth of 10.01 dollars if taking the path least resistance).
"The set of people who distrusts me is non empty" has opposite "The set of people who distrusts me is empty", i.e. no one distrusts Bob...
New contributor
New contributor
answered 13 hours ago
maria_cmaria_c
2094
2094
New contributor
New contributor
3
$begingroup$
Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
$endgroup$
– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
3
$begingroup$
Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
$endgroup$
– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
3
3
$begingroup$
Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Aye, but the rub is not the 'ten dollars' part, nut the 'net worth' part. Net worth' can be very subtly changed, for instance, by increasing debt.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
$endgroup$
– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme then just be more precise "my net worth is at most 10 dollars and I have debt."
$endgroup$
– Aethenosity
3 hours ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'I have at most 10 dollars' to mean 'I have exactly 10.01 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You misunderstand trust: I trust Bob completely.
A lack of trust comes from unpredictability and betrayal. Bob hasn't betrayed me because I trust him completely: he will always speak falsely. Frankly, that makes him a great deal more honest than many people I know, people whose honesty is unpredictable and therefore untrustworthy.
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. — Jack Sparrow
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$begingroup$
My thoughts exactly.
$endgroup$
– goblin
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You misunderstand trust: I trust Bob completely.
A lack of trust comes from unpredictability and betrayal. Bob hasn't betrayed me because I trust him completely: he will always speak falsely. Frankly, that makes him a great deal more honest than many people I know, people whose honesty is unpredictable and therefore untrustworthy.
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. — Jack Sparrow
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
My thoughts exactly.
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– goblin
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You misunderstand trust: I trust Bob completely.
A lack of trust comes from unpredictability and betrayal. Bob hasn't betrayed me because I trust him completely: he will always speak falsely. Frankly, that makes him a great deal more honest than many people I know, people whose honesty is unpredictable and therefore untrustworthy.
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. — Jack Sparrow
$endgroup$
You misunderstand trust: I trust Bob completely.
A lack of trust comes from unpredictability and betrayal. Bob hasn't betrayed me because I trust him completely: he will always speak falsely. Frankly, that makes him a great deal more honest than many people I know, people whose honesty is unpredictable and therefore untrustworthy.
Me? I'm dishonest, and a dishonest man you can always trust to be dishonest. Honestly. It's the honest ones you want to watch out for, because you can never predict when they're going to do something incredibly... stupid. — Jack Sparrow
edited 6 hours ago
answered 9 hours ago
JBHJBH
47k698222
47k698222
$begingroup$
My thoughts exactly.
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– goblin
4 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My thoughts exactly.
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– goblin
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
My thoughts exactly.
$endgroup$
– goblin
4 hours ago
$begingroup$
My thoughts exactly.
$endgroup$
– goblin
4 hours ago
add a comment |
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There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
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2
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That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
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– Mołot
14 hours ago
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Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
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– scohe001
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
$endgroup$
– scohe001
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
$endgroup$
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
answered 14 hours ago
Kasper van den BergKasper van den Berg
40939
40939
2
$begingroup$
That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
$endgroup$
– scohe001
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
2
$begingroup$
That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
4
$begingroup$
@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
7
$begingroup$
This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
$endgroup$
– scohe001
11 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
That's not really answering the question. That's more just a proof that Bob can force things to be true.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
4
4
$begingroup$
@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
@David question is about how does he make people to trust him. If fabrics of reality makes what he says false then this statement is simplest, sure solution — there will not be a second someone does not trust him, so this person will trust him, problem solved.
$endgroup$
– Mołot
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
$begingroup$
Fair enough, I didn't think about that.
$endgroup$
– David
14 hours ago
7
7
$begingroup$
This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is rough though.. because due to the path of least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
$endgroup$
– Dylan
12 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
$endgroup$
– scohe001
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Dylan why not "...that you will not trust me completely." then?
$endgroup$
– scohe001
11 hours ago
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Easy. Bob can gain people's trust through his actions. If he acts to help people, that will show he's trustworthy.
New contributor
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Just keep [not] talking.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Easy. Bob can gain people's trust through his actions. If he acts to help people, that will show he's trustworthy.
New contributor
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Just keep [not] talking.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Easy. Bob can gain people's trust through his actions. If he acts to help people, that will show he's trustworthy.
New contributor
$endgroup$
Easy. Bob can gain people's trust through his actions. If he acts to help people, that will show he's trustworthy.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 12 hours ago
HS-nebulaHS-nebula
1813
1813
New contributor
New contributor
2
$begingroup$
Just keep [not] talking.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Just keep [not] talking.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
2
2
$begingroup$
Just keep [not] talking.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Just keep [not] talking.
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
$begingroup$
'Showing that X' might be considered a statement...
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
43 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Don't Talk
"I have, at most, level 4 ASLPI proficiency level."
Then Bob can just play deaf. And if necessary, make himself temporarily deaf. Communicate with sign language, or writing if necessary. But it may not be necessary, since he can just tell someone that they are not sign proficient either.
Bob, the pessimistic super doctor
Work in a hospital. Always complain. "This patient won't survive." "That will leave scar." "It will take at least five hours of physical therapy before she can walk again." "You have cancer."
So no-one will trust what Dr. Bob says. But they will trust that he can save any patient, cure any illness.
Beyond that, go into the labs and complain that their research isn't ready. "YOu haven't finished your cure for the cold." "It only works on specific strains of the virus." "It has side effects." "It takes multiple doses." "It takes more than a day to work." "It costs more than 5 dollars to manufacture a dose." "It doesn't taste like chocolate."
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
$begingroup$
@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Don't Talk
"I have, at most, level 4 ASLPI proficiency level."
Then Bob can just play deaf. And if necessary, make himself temporarily deaf. Communicate with sign language, or writing if necessary. But it may not be necessary, since he can just tell someone that they are not sign proficient either.
Bob, the pessimistic super doctor
Work in a hospital. Always complain. "This patient won't survive." "That will leave scar." "It will take at least five hours of physical therapy before she can walk again." "You have cancer."
So no-one will trust what Dr. Bob says. But they will trust that he can save any patient, cure any illness.
Beyond that, go into the labs and complain that their research isn't ready. "YOu haven't finished your cure for the cold." "It only works on specific strains of the virus." "It has side effects." "It takes multiple doses." "It takes more than a day to work." "It costs more than 5 dollars to manufacture a dose." "It doesn't taste like chocolate."
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
$begingroup$
@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Don't Talk
"I have, at most, level 4 ASLPI proficiency level."
Then Bob can just play deaf. And if necessary, make himself temporarily deaf. Communicate with sign language, or writing if necessary. But it may not be necessary, since he can just tell someone that they are not sign proficient either.
Bob, the pessimistic super doctor
Work in a hospital. Always complain. "This patient won't survive." "That will leave scar." "It will take at least five hours of physical therapy before she can walk again." "You have cancer."
So no-one will trust what Dr. Bob says. But they will trust that he can save any patient, cure any illness.
Beyond that, go into the labs and complain that their research isn't ready. "YOu haven't finished your cure for the cold." "It only works on specific strains of the virus." "It has side effects." "It takes multiple doses." "It takes more than a day to work." "It costs more than 5 dollars to manufacture a dose." "It doesn't taste like chocolate."
$endgroup$
Don't Talk
"I have, at most, level 4 ASLPI proficiency level."
Then Bob can just play deaf. And if necessary, make himself temporarily deaf. Communicate with sign language, or writing if necessary. But it may not be necessary, since he can just tell someone that they are not sign proficient either.
Bob, the pessimistic super doctor
Work in a hospital. Always complain. "This patient won't survive." "That will leave scar." "It will take at least five hours of physical therapy before she can walk again." "You have cancer."
So no-one will trust what Dr. Bob says. But they will trust that he can save any patient, cure any illness.
Beyond that, go into the labs and complain that their research isn't ready. "YOu haven't finished your cure for the cold." "It only works on specific strains of the virus." "It has side effects." "It takes multiple doses." "It takes more than a day to work." "It costs more than 5 dollars to manufacture a dose." "It doesn't taste like chocolate."
answered 10 hours ago
Xavon_WrentaileXavon_Wrentaile
4,4271228
4,4271228
1
$begingroup$
With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
$begingroup$
@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
$begingroup$
@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
$begingroup$
With reality only going the path of least resistance to make certain statements untrue, 'That will leave a scar' may be untrue, as the scar will be there, but be precitpitated by something else. 'this patient won't surive' might make the patient be hooked up to life support, 'technically' alive, etc.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
59 mins ago
$begingroup$
@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
@bukwyrm That is only initial treatment. Bob can keep saying things to help that patients get better.
$endgroup$
– Xavon_Wrentaile
26 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
$begingroup$
I just reread the question. As Bob's statement's untruth cannot harm another human, but no such provision exist for it not to help another human, the net effect will always be positive; Didn't catch that; You are right, Bob would make a phenomenal doctor (as long as he keeps to talking). +1
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
13 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Pretend he's mute, keep his mouth shut and write everything down.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
10 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer ;)
$endgroup$
– Bob
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Pretend he's mute, keep his mouth shut and write everything down.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
10 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer ;)
$endgroup$
– Bob
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Pretend he's mute, keep his mouth shut and write everything down.
$endgroup$
Pretend he's mute, keep his mouth shut and write everything down.
answered 11 hours ago
KilisiKilisi
13.6k12260
13.6k12260
1
$begingroup$
11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
10 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer ;)
$endgroup$
– Bob
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
10 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer ;)
$endgroup$
– Bob
9 hours ago
2
$begingroup$
If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
1
1
$begingroup$
11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
10 hours ago
$begingroup$
11 words, 13.5k rep. Hmm, should know better, see me.
$endgroup$
– Agrajag
10 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer ;)
$endgroup$
– Bob
9 hours ago
$begingroup$
This is the correct answer ;)
$endgroup$
– Bob
9 hours ago
2
2
$begingroup$
If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
If this were Puzzling.SE, the OP would've got yelled at for leaving such an exploitable opening, +1 (and to every answer that doesn't use speech)
$endgroup$
– Mazura
7 hours ago
$begingroup$
Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
$begingroup$
Are statements given in writing not statements? Are mute people in your world unable to make statements?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
58 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My answer assumes that Bob can not predict HOW things will change, just that they will change, in subtle ways. Also, I am assuming that Bob can and will voluntarily answer your questions. I am also assuming that this works for any PREDICTIONS Bob makes. That is, any prediction that he makes will never be true. I am also assuming that Bob, in god faith, can tell the truth as it was at the time of him saying it.
I am not sure if the issue is in not being able to trust that the answer Bob gives you is the truth, but in being able to absolutely trust that the answer Bob gives you is NOT the truth.
If a betting man knew that Bob's answer could always be trusted to ultimately NOT be true, then a betting man could make a lot of money.
'Bob, what team will win the Series?' Then bet AGAINST the team he says. 'I will bet you that your favorite team x will NOT win the Series'. 'Oh, come ON, they are sure to win the series. You're ON, man, you're ON'.
Of course, a person with criminal intent would WANT him to tell the truth, so that it would become the UNtruth.
'Bob, try that door and tell me if it is locked?' In which case, you WANT him to tell the truth, that it is locked, so that it then becomes the UNtruth.
'Bob, is that watchman who is looking at us paying attention to us?'
'Bob, is that merchant charging for his goods?'
'Bob, will you tell the judge the truth about my guilt?' It doesn't matter if the judge believes him or not, but as soon as Bob says I am guilty, I am no longer guilty.
It would seem to me, that the utility and the advantage of having Bob as a friend would not be in what Bob says is the truth, but what HAPPENS in response to his telling the truth. That it reliably and immediately becomes the UNtruth in some way.
In day to day conversations as a friend, one could easily accommodate his eccentricities, if one knew absolutely that whatever he said, even if said in good faith, would be wrong.
'Bob, how much money do you have?' Bob: 'I have ten dollars'. So, if Bob answered truthfully in good faith, you know he has approximately ten dollars, but not exactly ten dollars.
'Bob, what time is it?' Bob: 'It is ten o'clock'. So again, if Bob is answering truthfully in good faith, and tells you the correct time, then you know it is AROUND ten o'clock but not exactly ten o'clock.
If he always answers with an approximate answer, that is close to the truth, you of course can always accommodate. The trick is to learn to ask Bob the question in the right way.
So those who perhaps find utility in Bob, and want to capitalize on his powers, but also want to have a good relationship with him on good faith, would have no problems as long as they always knew his good-faith answers were APPROXIMATE answers, and his devious faith answers were always the truth as he knew it at the time of his response. You and Bob would know the answer would be immediately incorrect as soon as he gave the response.
And, of course, there is the situations along the lines of: Bob: 'I need to go to the bathroom right now' means that, if it were the truth, Bob NO LONGER has to go to the bathroom right now, but he WILL have to go to the bathroom AGAIN (is that the right term) shortly.
in such a way, as long as the other person wanted to have a relationship with Bob, and Bob always responded in good faith with the truth, but both of you knew it was no longer the truth but approximately the truth, the relationship would work out.
So, really, it is about how much the OTHER person wants to have a good relationship with Bob, and is willing to accommodate, provided Bob enters the relationship in good faith.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My answer assumes that Bob can not predict HOW things will change, just that they will change, in subtle ways. Also, I am assuming that Bob can and will voluntarily answer your questions. I am also assuming that this works for any PREDICTIONS Bob makes. That is, any prediction that he makes will never be true. I am also assuming that Bob, in god faith, can tell the truth as it was at the time of him saying it.
I am not sure if the issue is in not being able to trust that the answer Bob gives you is the truth, but in being able to absolutely trust that the answer Bob gives you is NOT the truth.
If a betting man knew that Bob's answer could always be trusted to ultimately NOT be true, then a betting man could make a lot of money.
'Bob, what team will win the Series?' Then bet AGAINST the team he says. 'I will bet you that your favorite team x will NOT win the Series'. 'Oh, come ON, they are sure to win the series. You're ON, man, you're ON'.
Of course, a person with criminal intent would WANT him to tell the truth, so that it would become the UNtruth.
'Bob, try that door and tell me if it is locked?' In which case, you WANT him to tell the truth, that it is locked, so that it then becomes the UNtruth.
'Bob, is that watchman who is looking at us paying attention to us?'
'Bob, is that merchant charging for his goods?'
'Bob, will you tell the judge the truth about my guilt?' It doesn't matter if the judge believes him or not, but as soon as Bob says I am guilty, I am no longer guilty.
It would seem to me, that the utility and the advantage of having Bob as a friend would not be in what Bob says is the truth, but what HAPPENS in response to his telling the truth. That it reliably and immediately becomes the UNtruth in some way.
In day to day conversations as a friend, one could easily accommodate his eccentricities, if one knew absolutely that whatever he said, even if said in good faith, would be wrong.
'Bob, how much money do you have?' Bob: 'I have ten dollars'. So, if Bob answered truthfully in good faith, you know he has approximately ten dollars, but not exactly ten dollars.
'Bob, what time is it?' Bob: 'It is ten o'clock'. So again, if Bob is answering truthfully in good faith, and tells you the correct time, then you know it is AROUND ten o'clock but not exactly ten o'clock.
If he always answers with an approximate answer, that is close to the truth, you of course can always accommodate. The trick is to learn to ask Bob the question in the right way.
So those who perhaps find utility in Bob, and want to capitalize on his powers, but also want to have a good relationship with him on good faith, would have no problems as long as they always knew his good-faith answers were APPROXIMATE answers, and his devious faith answers were always the truth as he knew it at the time of his response. You and Bob would know the answer would be immediately incorrect as soon as he gave the response.
And, of course, there is the situations along the lines of: Bob: 'I need to go to the bathroom right now' means that, if it were the truth, Bob NO LONGER has to go to the bathroom right now, but he WILL have to go to the bathroom AGAIN (is that the right term) shortly.
in such a way, as long as the other person wanted to have a relationship with Bob, and Bob always responded in good faith with the truth, but both of you knew it was no longer the truth but approximately the truth, the relationship would work out.
So, really, it is about how much the OTHER person wants to have a good relationship with Bob, and is willing to accommodate, provided Bob enters the relationship in good faith.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
My answer assumes that Bob can not predict HOW things will change, just that they will change, in subtle ways. Also, I am assuming that Bob can and will voluntarily answer your questions. I am also assuming that this works for any PREDICTIONS Bob makes. That is, any prediction that he makes will never be true. I am also assuming that Bob, in god faith, can tell the truth as it was at the time of him saying it.
I am not sure if the issue is in not being able to trust that the answer Bob gives you is the truth, but in being able to absolutely trust that the answer Bob gives you is NOT the truth.
If a betting man knew that Bob's answer could always be trusted to ultimately NOT be true, then a betting man could make a lot of money.
'Bob, what team will win the Series?' Then bet AGAINST the team he says. 'I will bet you that your favorite team x will NOT win the Series'. 'Oh, come ON, they are sure to win the series. You're ON, man, you're ON'.
Of course, a person with criminal intent would WANT him to tell the truth, so that it would become the UNtruth.
'Bob, try that door and tell me if it is locked?' In which case, you WANT him to tell the truth, that it is locked, so that it then becomes the UNtruth.
'Bob, is that watchman who is looking at us paying attention to us?'
'Bob, is that merchant charging for his goods?'
'Bob, will you tell the judge the truth about my guilt?' It doesn't matter if the judge believes him or not, but as soon as Bob says I am guilty, I am no longer guilty.
It would seem to me, that the utility and the advantage of having Bob as a friend would not be in what Bob says is the truth, but what HAPPENS in response to his telling the truth. That it reliably and immediately becomes the UNtruth in some way.
In day to day conversations as a friend, one could easily accommodate his eccentricities, if one knew absolutely that whatever he said, even if said in good faith, would be wrong.
'Bob, how much money do you have?' Bob: 'I have ten dollars'. So, if Bob answered truthfully in good faith, you know he has approximately ten dollars, but not exactly ten dollars.
'Bob, what time is it?' Bob: 'It is ten o'clock'. So again, if Bob is answering truthfully in good faith, and tells you the correct time, then you know it is AROUND ten o'clock but not exactly ten o'clock.
If he always answers with an approximate answer, that is close to the truth, you of course can always accommodate. The trick is to learn to ask Bob the question in the right way.
So those who perhaps find utility in Bob, and want to capitalize on his powers, but also want to have a good relationship with him on good faith, would have no problems as long as they always knew his good-faith answers were APPROXIMATE answers, and his devious faith answers were always the truth as he knew it at the time of his response. You and Bob would know the answer would be immediately incorrect as soon as he gave the response.
And, of course, there is the situations along the lines of: Bob: 'I need to go to the bathroom right now' means that, if it were the truth, Bob NO LONGER has to go to the bathroom right now, but he WILL have to go to the bathroom AGAIN (is that the right term) shortly.
in such a way, as long as the other person wanted to have a relationship with Bob, and Bob always responded in good faith with the truth, but both of you knew it was no longer the truth but approximately the truth, the relationship would work out.
So, really, it is about how much the OTHER person wants to have a good relationship with Bob, and is willing to accommodate, provided Bob enters the relationship in good faith.
$endgroup$
My answer assumes that Bob can not predict HOW things will change, just that they will change, in subtle ways. Also, I am assuming that Bob can and will voluntarily answer your questions. I am also assuming that this works for any PREDICTIONS Bob makes. That is, any prediction that he makes will never be true. I am also assuming that Bob, in god faith, can tell the truth as it was at the time of him saying it.
I am not sure if the issue is in not being able to trust that the answer Bob gives you is the truth, but in being able to absolutely trust that the answer Bob gives you is NOT the truth.
If a betting man knew that Bob's answer could always be trusted to ultimately NOT be true, then a betting man could make a lot of money.
'Bob, what team will win the Series?' Then bet AGAINST the team he says. 'I will bet you that your favorite team x will NOT win the Series'. 'Oh, come ON, they are sure to win the series. You're ON, man, you're ON'.
Of course, a person with criminal intent would WANT him to tell the truth, so that it would become the UNtruth.
'Bob, try that door and tell me if it is locked?' In which case, you WANT him to tell the truth, that it is locked, so that it then becomes the UNtruth.
'Bob, is that watchman who is looking at us paying attention to us?'
'Bob, is that merchant charging for his goods?'
'Bob, will you tell the judge the truth about my guilt?' It doesn't matter if the judge believes him or not, but as soon as Bob says I am guilty, I am no longer guilty.
It would seem to me, that the utility and the advantage of having Bob as a friend would not be in what Bob says is the truth, but what HAPPENS in response to his telling the truth. That it reliably and immediately becomes the UNtruth in some way.
In day to day conversations as a friend, one could easily accommodate his eccentricities, if one knew absolutely that whatever he said, even if said in good faith, would be wrong.
'Bob, how much money do you have?' Bob: 'I have ten dollars'. So, if Bob answered truthfully in good faith, you know he has approximately ten dollars, but not exactly ten dollars.
'Bob, what time is it?' Bob: 'It is ten o'clock'. So again, if Bob is answering truthfully in good faith, and tells you the correct time, then you know it is AROUND ten o'clock but not exactly ten o'clock.
If he always answers with an approximate answer, that is close to the truth, you of course can always accommodate. The trick is to learn to ask Bob the question in the right way.
So those who perhaps find utility in Bob, and want to capitalize on his powers, but also want to have a good relationship with him on good faith, would have no problems as long as they always knew his good-faith answers were APPROXIMATE answers, and his devious faith answers were always the truth as he knew it at the time of his response. You and Bob would know the answer would be immediately incorrect as soon as he gave the response.
And, of course, there is the situations along the lines of: Bob: 'I need to go to the bathroom right now' means that, if it were the truth, Bob NO LONGER has to go to the bathroom right now, but he WILL have to go to the bathroom AGAIN (is that the right term) shortly.
in such a way, as long as the other person wanted to have a relationship with Bob, and Bob always responded in good faith with the truth, but both of you knew it was no longer the truth but approximately the truth, the relationship would work out.
So, really, it is about how much the OTHER person wants to have a good relationship with Bob, and is willing to accommodate, provided Bob enters the relationship in good faith.
answered 12 hours ago
Justin ThymeJustin Thyme
1
1
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When Bob wants to communicate, he doesn't make statements. He asks questions that lead people to the correct conclusions or uses imperatives.
Mr. X: Bob, what is behind this door?
Bob: Would you believe there's a
tiger behind the door? Don't open the door.
Mr. X: Bob, where's the report you were supposed to hand in?
Bob: Where would you expect it to be?
Mr. X: On my desk in my in-box.
Bob: It's not there. Or is it?
Mr. X: Bob, why do you always ask questions instead of directly
telling what you want?
Bob: Hypothetically, if an honest person was
incapable of making a true statement because of a cursed super-power,
how do you think such a person would communicate?
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
$endgroup$
– Michael
4 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When Bob wants to communicate, he doesn't make statements. He asks questions that lead people to the correct conclusions or uses imperatives.
Mr. X: Bob, what is behind this door?
Bob: Would you believe there's a
tiger behind the door? Don't open the door.
Mr. X: Bob, where's the report you were supposed to hand in?
Bob: Where would you expect it to be?
Mr. X: On my desk in my in-box.
Bob: It's not there. Or is it?
Mr. X: Bob, why do you always ask questions instead of directly
telling what you want?
Bob: Hypothetically, if an honest person was
incapable of making a true statement because of a cursed super-power,
how do you think such a person would communicate?
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
$endgroup$
– Michael
4 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
When Bob wants to communicate, he doesn't make statements. He asks questions that lead people to the correct conclusions or uses imperatives.
Mr. X: Bob, what is behind this door?
Bob: Would you believe there's a
tiger behind the door? Don't open the door.
Mr. X: Bob, where's the report you were supposed to hand in?
Bob: Where would you expect it to be?
Mr. X: On my desk in my in-box.
Bob: It's not there. Or is it?
Mr. X: Bob, why do you always ask questions instead of directly
telling what you want?
Bob: Hypothetically, if an honest person was
incapable of making a true statement because of a cursed super-power,
how do you think such a person would communicate?
New contributor
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When Bob wants to communicate, he doesn't make statements. He asks questions that lead people to the correct conclusions or uses imperatives.
Mr. X: Bob, what is behind this door?
Bob: Would you believe there's a
tiger behind the door? Don't open the door.
Mr. X: Bob, where's the report you were supposed to hand in?
Bob: Where would you expect it to be?
Mr. X: On my desk in my in-box.
Bob: It's not there. Or is it?
Mr. X: Bob, why do you always ask questions instead of directly
telling what you want?
Bob: Hypothetically, if an honest person was
incapable of making a true statement because of a cursed super-power,
how do you think such a person would communicate?
New contributor
New contributor
answered 6 hours ago
MichaelMichael
512
512
New contributor
New contributor
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This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
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– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
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It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
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– Michael
4 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
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– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
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– Michael
4 mins ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a 'if a tree falls where no one can hear' scenario - if everyone understands what Bob 'really' is saying, i.e. if people understand 'Do i have less than 5 dollars?' to mean 'I have 5 dollars' - does reality bend to make that meta-statement untrue too?
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
45 mins ago
$begingroup$
It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
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– Michael
4 mins ago
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It depends on whether Bob's power extends to the domain of pragmatics or if it's bound by literal meaning.
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– Michael
4 mins ago
add a comment |
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You kind of answered your own question, he can't remove this superpower by stating he has it so he can go up to anyone, explain the way the power works and then demonstrate it using some easy cases. People will be skeptical at first but will believe him after enough convincing examples.
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People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.
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– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
3
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@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
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– Muuski
12 hours ago
1
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Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
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– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
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@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
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– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You kind of answered your own question, he can't remove this superpower by stating he has it so he can go up to anyone, explain the way the power works and then demonstrate it using some easy cases. People will be skeptical at first but will believe him after enough convincing examples.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
$endgroup$
– Muuski
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
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– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
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– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You kind of answered your own question, he can't remove this superpower by stating he has it so he can go up to anyone, explain the way the power works and then demonstrate it using some easy cases. People will be skeptical at first but will believe him after enough convincing examples.
$endgroup$
You kind of answered your own question, he can't remove this superpower by stating he has it so he can go up to anyone, explain the way the power works and then demonstrate it using some easy cases. People will be skeptical at first but will believe him after enough convincing examples.
answered 13 hours ago
MuuskiMuuski
43727
43727
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People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
$endgroup$
– Muuski
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
3
$begingroup$
@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
$endgroup$
– Muuski
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
People automatically disbelieve any statements he makes.
Even though as you observed he can directly and truthfully explain his power, if he does, nobody will believe him.$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
3
3
$begingroup$
@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
$endgroup$
– Muuski
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Unrelated String That statement lacks a reason. Do people distrust him because the power forces them not to, as you seem to assume, or do they distrust him from experience? Since the question is asking how to overcome distrust we're assuming that it's possible and thus that it's not caused by the superpower. Otherwise the question becomes "How can we make the impossible possible?"
$endgroup$
– Muuski
12 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Valid point. However, disbelief is not equivalent to distrust, so ideally Bob would be able to get people to trust that everything he says is false without it reflecting on his moral character. Of course, that brings up the question of how intent factors in...
$endgroup$
– Unrelated String
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
$endgroup$
– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
$begingroup$
@Muuski 'Hi! nothing i can possibly say will sound true to you, for reasons of magic' > Reality doesnt change > disbelief. 'See, for instance you know i know when you were born;' Reality changes, person doesnt know that > disbelief 'It was in 1950, right?' Reality just changed. Person was born in 1951. Person thinks 'wow, so Bob said something false. Big Feat. Not.' Bob continues to make false statements. Person is unimpressed.
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– bukwyrm
47 mins ago
add a comment |
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It is really simple.
Don't try to make them believe you. Always tell the lie that they won't believe to get them to realize the truth.
If your friend asks if you want to head out to dinner and you do, actually want to, say "no." Your friend will know that you can't tell the truth and know what you are saying.
Once enough people know about the power, everyone will know that he has to speak that way.
Also, he would be in high demand for anything that requires safety.
Any time he gets on an airplane, all he has to say is "this plane will not land safely."
He can be the benevolent doomsayer.
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But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
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– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
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Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
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@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
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– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
add a comment |
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It is really simple.
Don't try to make them believe you. Always tell the lie that they won't believe to get them to realize the truth.
If your friend asks if you want to head out to dinner and you do, actually want to, say "no." Your friend will know that you can't tell the truth and know what you are saying.
Once enough people know about the power, everyone will know that he has to speak that way.
Also, he would be in high demand for anything that requires safety.
Any time he gets on an airplane, all he has to say is "this plane will not land safely."
He can be the benevolent doomsayer.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It is really simple.
Don't try to make them believe you. Always tell the lie that they won't believe to get them to realize the truth.
If your friend asks if you want to head out to dinner and you do, actually want to, say "no." Your friend will know that you can't tell the truth and know what you are saying.
Once enough people know about the power, everyone will know that he has to speak that way.
Also, he would be in high demand for anything that requires safety.
Any time he gets on an airplane, all he has to say is "this plane will not land safely."
He can be the benevolent doomsayer.
$endgroup$
It is really simple.
Don't try to make them believe you. Always tell the lie that they won't believe to get them to realize the truth.
If your friend asks if you want to head out to dinner and you do, actually want to, say "no." Your friend will know that you can't tell the truth and know what you are saying.
Once enough people know about the power, everyone will know that he has to speak that way.
Also, he would be in high demand for anything that requires safety.
Any time he gets on an airplane, all he has to say is "this plane will not land safely."
He can be the benevolent doomsayer.
answered 13 hours ago
ShadoCatShadoCat
15.5k2053
15.5k2053
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But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
But suppose Bob wanted to go out to dinner but not with that person? Or that he didn't want to go out to diner with that person, but did want to go out to dinner with someone else?
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme, "I want to go out to dinner with you." All it takes is a bit of creative logic.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
Two parts, 'I want to go out to dinner' and ';with you'.Either can be 'falsified/ to make it 'false'.Compound statements are too ambiguous. But remember, if what Bob says is already 'false', it is not made 'true'. It does not have to be changed at all. It's only when he makes a true statement that something has to make that statement false. If Bob says 'you got 90 on the test' but you really got 99, nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@JustinThyme Does the person asking that question need to know which is the case? If Bob wants to get more specific he can but it is not necessary to get the point across. In this case, Bob is not trying to change anything, he is just communicating in a meaningful way. That's what the OP was about.
$endgroup$
– ShadoCat
11 hours ago
add a comment |
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How linguistically savvy is this superpower? How linguistically savvy is Bob?
I'm assuming here that Bob wants to communicate the truth and wants to be trusted. I'm also going to be treating the superpower as an antagonist to this goal.
If the superpower can recognize the intent of his statements and will change the truth of the part he intends to communicate, he's kind of stuck (although maria_c's answer is a good one for getting as close as possible to the truth).
If, however, the superpower only analyzes his statements in terms of syntax and semantics, Bob can work around the limitation in various ways.
First, he can use questions instead of statements. While declarative sentences have a truth value (as long as they aren't paradoxes), interrogative sentences do not. So if he wanted to tell you that Madrid is the capital of Spain, he could ask you "Did you know that Madrid is the capital of Spain?"
Second, he could always tell you what he wants you to know in a content clause. This will still involve a declarative sentence, but by selecting the main clause carefully he can make a sentence that is already false (and therefore exempt from the power), but that nevertheless has a true content clause. For example: "No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain." People already know that Madrid is the capital of Spain, therefore the statement is false. It can't be further falsified and the superpower won't touch it.
New contributor
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1
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"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
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– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
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That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
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– MacA
12 hours ago
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The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
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@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
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– MacA
11 hours ago
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@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How linguistically savvy is this superpower? How linguistically savvy is Bob?
I'm assuming here that Bob wants to communicate the truth and wants to be trusted. I'm also going to be treating the superpower as an antagonist to this goal.
If the superpower can recognize the intent of his statements and will change the truth of the part he intends to communicate, he's kind of stuck (although maria_c's answer is a good one for getting as close as possible to the truth).
If, however, the superpower only analyzes his statements in terms of syntax and semantics, Bob can work around the limitation in various ways.
First, he can use questions instead of statements. While declarative sentences have a truth value (as long as they aren't paradoxes), interrogative sentences do not. So if he wanted to tell you that Madrid is the capital of Spain, he could ask you "Did you know that Madrid is the capital of Spain?"
Second, he could always tell you what he wants you to know in a content clause. This will still involve a declarative sentence, but by selecting the main clause carefully he can make a sentence that is already false (and therefore exempt from the power), but that nevertheless has a true content clause. For example: "No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain." People already know that Madrid is the capital of Spain, therefore the statement is false. It can't be further falsified and the superpower won't touch it.
New contributor
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1
$begingroup$
"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
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– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
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That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
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– MacA
12 hours ago
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The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
$endgroup$
– MacA
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How linguistically savvy is this superpower? How linguistically savvy is Bob?
I'm assuming here that Bob wants to communicate the truth and wants to be trusted. I'm also going to be treating the superpower as an antagonist to this goal.
If the superpower can recognize the intent of his statements and will change the truth of the part he intends to communicate, he's kind of stuck (although maria_c's answer is a good one for getting as close as possible to the truth).
If, however, the superpower only analyzes his statements in terms of syntax and semantics, Bob can work around the limitation in various ways.
First, he can use questions instead of statements. While declarative sentences have a truth value (as long as they aren't paradoxes), interrogative sentences do not. So if he wanted to tell you that Madrid is the capital of Spain, he could ask you "Did you know that Madrid is the capital of Spain?"
Second, he could always tell you what he wants you to know in a content clause. This will still involve a declarative sentence, but by selecting the main clause carefully he can make a sentence that is already false (and therefore exempt from the power), but that nevertheless has a true content clause. For example: "No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain." People already know that Madrid is the capital of Spain, therefore the statement is false. It can't be further falsified and the superpower won't touch it.
New contributor
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How linguistically savvy is this superpower? How linguistically savvy is Bob?
I'm assuming here that Bob wants to communicate the truth and wants to be trusted. I'm also going to be treating the superpower as an antagonist to this goal.
If the superpower can recognize the intent of his statements and will change the truth of the part he intends to communicate, he's kind of stuck (although maria_c's answer is a good one for getting as close as possible to the truth).
If, however, the superpower only analyzes his statements in terms of syntax and semantics, Bob can work around the limitation in various ways.
First, he can use questions instead of statements. While declarative sentences have a truth value (as long as they aren't paradoxes), interrogative sentences do not. So if he wanted to tell you that Madrid is the capital of Spain, he could ask you "Did you know that Madrid is the capital of Spain?"
Second, he could always tell you what he wants you to know in a content clause. This will still involve a declarative sentence, but by selecting the main clause carefully he can make a sentence that is already false (and therefore exempt from the power), but that nevertheless has a true content clause. For example: "No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain." People already know that Madrid is the capital of Spain, therefore the statement is false. It can't be further falsified and the superpower won't touch it.
New contributor
edited 11 hours ago
New contributor
answered 13 hours ago
MacAMacA
1296
1296
New contributor
New contributor
1
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"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
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– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
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That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
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– MacA
12 hours ago
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The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
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@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
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– MacA
11 hours ago
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@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
$endgroup$
– MacA
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
$endgroup$
– MacA
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
"No one knows that Madrid is the capital of Spain" can easily be made false by by exactly one person knowing that Madrid is the capital of Spain. In fact, it's already false because many people do, in fact, know that. If instead he phrased it as "There are some people who do not know that Madrid is the capital of Spain", the smallest possible change that could make that false is every (existing) person knowing it. (Though whether the knowledge is added to everyone's heads or those who don't know simply cease existing, or Spain's capital moves to Barcelona is hard to say...)
$endgroup$
– Darrel Hoffman
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
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– MacA
12 hours ago
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That was my point. The sentence is already false, so it can't be falsified and is exempt. I will edit my answer for better clarity.
$endgroup$
– MacA
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
The smallest possible change is that just one person changes their knowledge, as 'some people' still relates to a definite pool of identified people, and only one of them needs to exit the pool for the statement to be false. It would become 'some people minus one' or, looked at another way, 'one less than some people'.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
$endgroup$
– MacA
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Justin Thyme. My interpretation of the power, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that it does nothing when Bob makes a false statement. So my example is a false statement with a true statement embedded in a content clause. The smallest change to make this statement false is no change at all.
$endgroup$
– MacA
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
@MacA Now that you mention it, the question does not really address what happens if Bob makes a false statement, just what happens if he makes a true statement. If his statement is already false, then it is already 'not true' and no action is necessary.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
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NOTE: This answer assumes Bob cannot make people trust him simply by saying "You don't trust me".
It's very easy to get people to trust him. Simply announce in a loud voice the opposite of what you want and soon people will pick up that the opposite will happen. If you want people to notice faster do it in a casino.
It will take some time to fine-tune what to say, but this is essentially a wish granting power. You just have to phrase it a little weird.
Your friends will all want you to say things like
My company's value will go down
Or
It'll land on black
Or
Your marriage won't last
Several economic indicators are like this. Things like more stocks being issued (IPOs) and more credit being available happens before a stock market crash. People watch these and try to time the market (but rarely succeed).
The real curse is to say the truth but have no one believe you like Cassandra
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"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
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– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
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But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
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– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
NOTE: This answer assumes Bob cannot make people trust him simply by saying "You don't trust me".
It's very easy to get people to trust him. Simply announce in a loud voice the opposite of what you want and soon people will pick up that the opposite will happen. If you want people to notice faster do it in a casino.
It will take some time to fine-tune what to say, but this is essentially a wish granting power. You just have to phrase it a little weird.
Your friends will all want you to say things like
My company's value will go down
Or
It'll land on black
Or
Your marriage won't last
Several economic indicators are like this. Things like more stocks being issued (IPOs) and more credit being available happens before a stock market crash. People watch these and try to time the market (but rarely succeed).
The real curse is to say the truth but have no one believe you like Cassandra
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
$endgroup$
– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
NOTE: This answer assumes Bob cannot make people trust him simply by saying "You don't trust me".
It's very easy to get people to trust him. Simply announce in a loud voice the opposite of what you want and soon people will pick up that the opposite will happen. If you want people to notice faster do it in a casino.
It will take some time to fine-tune what to say, but this is essentially a wish granting power. You just have to phrase it a little weird.
Your friends will all want you to say things like
My company's value will go down
Or
It'll land on black
Or
Your marriage won't last
Several economic indicators are like this. Things like more stocks being issued (IPOs) and more credit being available happens before a stock market crash. People watch these and try to time the market (but rarely succeed).
The real curse is to say the truth but have no one believe you like Cassandra
$endgroup$
NOTE: This answer assumes Bob cannot make people trust him simply by saying "You don't trust me".
It's very easy to get people to trust him. Simply announce in a loud voice the opposite of what you want and soon people will pick up that the opposite will happen. If you want people to notice faster do it in a casino.
It will take some time to fine-tune what to say, but this is essentially a wish granting power. You just have to phrase it a little weird.
Your friends will all want you to say things like
My company's value will go down
Or
It'll land on black
Or
Your marriage won't last
Several economic indicators are like this. Things like more stocks being issued (IPOs) and more credit being available happens before a stock market crash. People watch these and try to time the market (but rarely succeed).
The real curse is to say the truth but have no one believe you like Cassandra
edited 13 hours ago
answered 14 hours ago
sevensevenssevensevens
4795
4795
$begingroup$
"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
$endgroup$
– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
$endgroup$
– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
$endgroup$
– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
"In addition, this superpower is permanent and cannot be removed through anything he might say or any interaction with other superpowers that might exist."
$endgroup$
– Rob Watts
13 hours ago
$begingroup$
But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
$begingroup$
But if the change is absolutely so subtle that no one can tell it is a change? Bob can not control how subtle the change IS, as i understand it.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
11 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In @KaspervandenBerg 's answer:
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
due to least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
I propose this:
You trust me less than you trust everyone else.
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Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
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– Wildcard
12 hours ago
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@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
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– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
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@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
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– Wildcard
12 hours ago
1
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This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
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– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In @KaspervandenBerg 's answer:
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
due to least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
I propose this:
You trust me less than you trust everyone else.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
$endgroup$
– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In @KaspervandenBerg 's answer:
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
due to least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
I propose this:
You trust me less than you trust everyone else.
$endgroup$
In @KaspervandenBerg 's answer:
There are seconds during this week/month/year that you will not trust me a bit. --Bob
due to least resistance, you end up with people only trusting bob slightly more than a bit.
I propose this:
You trust me less than you trust everyone else.
answered 12 hours ago
DylanDylan
2114
2114
$begingroup$
Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
$endgroup$
– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
$endgroup$
– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
1
$begingroup$
This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Path of least resistance: that person has a crisis of faith and becomes paranoid.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
$endgroup$
– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@Wildcard Why would it be less resistance to alter this person's entire outlook on the world than to simply alter their opinion of one person?
$endgroup$
– Admiral Jota
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AdmiralJota is it easier for you to make people trust you or not trust you? (A: not trust you.) Why do think the fabric of reality could establish trust any more easily? Just food for thought.
$endgroup$
– Wildcard
12 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
This becomes a paradox, and nothing would happen.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In a computer game "Divinity: Original Sin II" there was one character, a talking mouse, who was cursed and as a result could only tell lies. When you meet him, he wants you to remove the curse, but, of course, he can't simply tell you about it, because that would be the truth he cannot tell. So he simply reverses everything and says something like "I am not a mouse. I don't have this curse that makes me always tell a lie. I don't think you could help me and remove the curse by doing so and so... Doing so and so. It wouldn't help. Got it?" Can't your Bob just do the same?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In a computer game "Divinity: Original Sin II" there was one character, a talking mouse, who was cursed and as a result could only tell lies. When you meet him, he wants you to remove the curse, but, of course, he can't simply tell you about it, because that would be the truth he cannot tell. So he simply reverses everything and says something like "I am not a mouse. I don't have this curse that makes me always tell a lie. I don't think you could help me and remove the curse by doing so and so... Doing so and so. It wouldn't help. Got it?" Can't your Bob just do the same?
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In a computer game "Divinity: Original Sin II" there was one character, a talking mouse, who was cursed and as a result could only tell lies. When you meet him, he wants you to remove the curse, but, of course, he can't simply tell you about it, because that would be the truth he cannot tell. So he simply reverses everything and says something like "I am not a mouse. I don't have this curse that makes me always tell a lie. I don't think you could help me and remove the curse by doing so and so... Doing so and so. It wouldn't help. Got it?" Can't your Bob just do the same?
$endgroup$
In a computer game "Divinity: Original Sin II" there was one character, a talking mouse, who was cursed and as a result could only tell lies. When you meet him, he wants you to remove the curse, but, of course, he can't simply tell you about it, because that would be the truth he cannot tell. So he simply reverses everything and says something like "I am not a mouse. I don't have this curse that makes me always tell a lie. I don't think you could help me and remove the curse by doing so and so... Doing so and so. It wouldn't help. Got it?" Can't your Bob just do the same?
answered 1 hour ago
HeadcrabHeadcrab
39825
39825
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob can be a superhero and become rich really easy.
All he needs to do is to spread conspiracy theories.
Bob says the Earth is flat. The Earth assumes a spherical geometry. Had Bob not used his power, we would eventually be suffocated by the giant elephants' magical freezing farts which keep the frozen barrier st the rim in place, or we would eventually be smashed by the cosmic turtle's sexual partner.
Bob says aliens are abducting people and probing their cavities. Now the aliens can't do that - Bob is a one man X-com!
Bob says planes leave out chemtrails that are used for mind control. Now they don't anymore! Take that, Illuminatti!
And so on. The only conspiracy theories he can't defeat are vaccine and GMO related ones, because those can actually cause direct harm to people.
So most everyone from the average Joe to the eggheads of our time will not trust Bob, but that's not a problem. He will have the undisputed and unwavering trust and loyalty of basically every Infowars follower. He can even take over Alex Jones's place and make huge loads of cash that way.
Heck, Bob could even easily become the next republican president, and he would save the world from climate change by claiming that coal is cleaner than solar and wind power.
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1
$begingroup$
Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob can be a superhero and become rich really easy.
All he needs to do is to spread conspiracy theories.
Bob says the Earth is flat. The Earth assumes a spherical geometry. Had Bob not used his power, we would eventually be suffocated by the giant elephants' magical freezing farts which keep the frozen barrier st the rim in place, or we would eventually be smashed by the cosmic turtle's sexual partner.
Bob says aliens are abducting people and probing their cavities. Now the aliens can't do that - Bob is a one man X-com!
Bob says planes leave out chemtrails that are used for mind control. Now they don't anymore! Take that, Illuminatti!
And so on. The only conspiracy theories he can't defeat are vaccine and GMO related ones, because those can actually cause direct harm to people.
So most everyone from the average Joe to the eggheads of our time will not trust Bob, but that's not a problem. He will have the undisputed and unwavering trust and loyalty of basically every Infowars follower. He can even take over Alex Jones's place and make huge loads of cash that way.
Heck, Bob could even easily become the next republican president, and he would save the world from climate change by claiming that coal is cleaner than solar and wind power.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob can be a superhero and become rich really easy.
All he needs to do is to spread conspiracy theories.
Bob says the Earth is flat. The Earth assumes a spherical geometry. Had Bob not used his power, we would eventually be suffocated by the giant elephants' magical freezing farts which keep the frozen barrier st the rim in place, or we would eventually be smashed by the cosmic turtle's sexual partner.
Bob says aliens are abducting people and probing their cavities. Now the aliens can't do that - Bob is a one man X-com!
Bob says planes leave out chemtrails that are used for mind control. Now they don't anymore! Take that, Illuminatti!
And so on. The only conspiracy theories he can't defeat are vaccine and GMO related ones, because those can actually cause direct harm to people.
So most everyone from the average Joe to the eggheads of our time will not trust Bob, but that's not a problem. He will have the undisputed and unwavering trust and loyalty of basically every Infowars follower. He can even take over Alex Jones's place and make huge loads of cash that way.
Heck, Bob could even easily become the next republican president, and he would save the world from climate change by claiming that coal is cleaner than solar and wind power.
$endgroup$
Bob can be a superhero and become rich really easy.
All he needs to do is to spread conspiracy theories.
Bob says the Earth is flat. The Earth assumes a spherical geometry. Had Bob not used his power, we would eventually be suffocated by the giant elephants' magical freezing farts which keep the frozen barrier st the rim in place, or we would eventually be smashed by the cosmic turtle's sexual partner.
Bob says aliens are abducting people and probing their cavities. Now the aliens can't do that - Bob is a one man X-com!
Bob says planes leave out chemtrails that are used for mind control. Now they don't anymore! Take that, Illuminatti!
And so on. The only conspiracy theories he can't defeat are vaccine and GMO related ones, because those can actually cause direct harm to people.
So most everyone from the average Joe to the eggheads of our time will not trust Bob, but that's not a problem. He will have the undisputed and unwavering trust and loyalty of basically every Infowars follower. He can even take over Alex Jones's place and make huge loads of cash that way.
Heck, Bob could even easily become the next republican president, and he would save the world from climate change by claiming that coal is cleaner than solar and wind power.
answered 14 hours ago
RenanRenan
51.1k14118256
51.1k14118256
1
$begingroup$
Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Republicans don't have a corner on the hot air market lol
$endgroup$
– pojo-guy
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Simple, there's a class of people that do similar all the time: Be a denialist speaker.
Many people will believe what's most convenient if it's said with authority and minimal requirement for thinking or action on their part. Just look at flat earthers, climate deniers, anti-vaxxers, and similar.
Just support wrong things with momentum, and everything suppporting that wrong thing will believe him.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Simple, there's a class of people that do similar all the time: Be a denialist speaker.
Many people will believe what's most convenient if it's said with authority and minimal requirement for thinking or action on their part. Just look at flat earthers, climate deniers, anti-vaxxers, and similar.
Just support wrong things with momentum, and everything suppporting that wrong thing will believe him.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Simple, there's a class of people that do similar all the time: Be a denialist speaker.
Many people will believe what's most convenient if it's said with authority and minimal requirement for thinking or action on their part. Just look at flat earthers, climate deniers, anti-vaxxers, and similar.
Just support wrong things with momentum, and everything suppporting that wrong thing will believe him.
$endgroup$
Simple, there's a class of people that do similar all the time: Be a denialist speaker.
Many people will believe what's most convenient if it's said with authority and minimal requirement for thinking or action on their part. Just look at flat earthers, climate deniers, anti-vaxxers, and similar.
Just support wrong things with momentum, and everything suppporting that wrong thing will believe him.
answered 12 hours ago
liljoshuliljoshu
1,633311
1,633311
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Couldn't Bob simply tell someone he meets like some girl he likes very much and after many different machinations and presumed falsehoods he'd say something like "You simply do not understand me" by accident? In that way someone actually WOULD understand Bob's superpower without being harmed? Then communication could be carried out albeit in a very curiously and perhaps very humorous way. Just a thought.
It would be interesting to have a scene of an argument between Joe and Bob perhaps... I don't know how you'd do it but it could amount to a superpower Abbot and Costello routine.
New contributor
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Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
12 hours ago
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The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
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– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Couldn't Bob simply tell someone he meets like some girl he likes very much and after many different machinations and presumed falsehoods he'd say something like "You simply do not understand me" by accident? In that way someone actually WOULD understand Bob's superpower without being harmed? Then communication could be carried out albeit in a very curiously and perhaps very humorous way. Just a thought.
It would be interesting to have a scene of an argument between Joe and Bob perhaps... I don't know how you'd do it but it could amount to a superpower Abbot and Costello routine.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Couldn't Bob simply tell someone he meets like some girl he likes very much and after many different machinations and presumed falsehoods he'd say something like "You simply do not understand me" by accident? In that way someone actually WOULD understand Bob's superpower without being harmed? Then communication could be carried out albeit in a very curiously and perhaps very humorous way. Just a thought.
It would be interesting to have a scene of an argument between Joe and Bob perhaps... I don't know how you'd do it but it could amount to a superpower Abbot and Costello routine.
New contributor
$endgroup$
Couldn't Bob simply tell someone he meets like some girl he likes very much and after many different machinations and presumed falsehoods he'd say something like "You simply do not understand me" by accident? In that way someone actually WOULD understand Bob's superpower without being harmed? Then communication could be carried out albeit in a very curiously and perhaps very humorous way. Just a thought.
It would be interesting to have a scene of an argument between Joe and Bob perhaps... I don't know how you'd do it but it could amount to a superpower Abbot and Costello routine.
New contributor
edited 12 hours ago
New contributor
answered 12 hours ago
KodiakMFLKodiakMFL
11
11
New contributor
New contributor
$begingroup$
Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
Not necessarily. It would just make someone "not-so-simply" don't understand Bob.
$endgroup$
– Alexander
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
$begingroup$
The trick is he WANTS her to understand him, and him saying 'You don't understand me' would result in her understanding him, but her understanding of him does not necessarily have to conform to what he really is. It becomes cyclic. A non sequitur.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
12 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
He lies all the time. Even if says the truth, it changes to an untruth because he said it. So, the truth is something that is not a fact when he says it is. What he says is either a lie or about to be a lie. But he wants to build people’s trust. He begins by speaking only about the trifle things. It will be noticed that Bob’s lies do not touch anything that should be unchanged because the benefits of everyone who Bob wants to trust him depend on it. He learns to know what benefits people and stays away from mentioning those things. He must be very careful, for any of his statement can catch the fringes of the important and shift it. Other than that, he can speak lies as much as he wants. About the things that they have no idea of, for example. He earns people’s trust into a fact that he would never speak about the important things. What Bod is talking about is not important. They can take it to the bank. Once they think so, he can return and attack benefits. There is nothing important now, for he seems to speaks about everything. Either an unimportant thing is true or false does not make difference under a certain point. The only thing they know for sure that Bob would never speak about it if it would be of any importance. The only thing that is left true is Bob.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
He lies all the time. Even if says the truth, it changes to an untruth because he said it. So, the truth is something that is not a fact when he says it is. What he says is either a lie or about to be a lie. But he wants to build people’s trust. He begins by speaking only about the trifle things. It will be noticed that Bob’s lies do not touch anything that should be unchanged because the benefits of everyone who Bob wants to trust him depend on it. He learns to know what benefits people and stays away from mentioning those things. He must be very careful, for any of his statement can catch the fringes of the important and shift it. Other than that, he can speak lies as much as he wants. About the things that they have no idea of, for example. He earns people’s trust into a fact that he would never speak about the important things. What Bod is talking about is not important. They can take it to the bank. Once they think so, he can return and attack benefits. There is nothing important now, for he seems to speaks about everything. Either an unimportant thing is true or false does not make difference under a certain point. The only thing they know for sure that Bob would never speak about it if it would be of any importance. The only thing that is left true is Bob.
New contributor
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
He lies all the time. Even if says the truth, it changes to an untruth because he said it. So, the truth is something that is not a fact when he says it is. What he says is either a lie or about to be a lie. But he wants to build people’s trust. He begins by speaking only about the trifle things. It will be noticed that Bob’s lies do not touch anything that should be unchanged because the benefits of everyone who Bob wants to trust him depend on it. He learns to know what benefits people and stays away from mentioning those things. He must be very careful, for any of his statement can catch the fringes of the important and shift it. Other than that, he can speak lies as much as he wants. About the things that they have no idea of, for example. He earns people’s trust into a fact that he would never speak about the important things. What Bod is talking about is not important. They can take it to the bank. Once they think so, he can return and attack benefits. There is nothing important now, for he seems to speaks about everything. Either an unimportant thing is true or false does not make difference under a certain point. The only thing they know for sure that Bob would never speak about it if it would be of any importance. The only thing that is left true is Bob.
New contributor
$endgroup$
He lies all the time. Even if says the truth, it changes to an untruth because he said it. So, the truth is something that is not a fact when he says it is. What he says is either a lie or about to be a lie. But he wants to build people’s trust. He begins by speaking only about the trifle things. It will be noticed that Bob’s lies do not touch anything that should be unchanged because the benefits of everyone who Bob wants to trust him depend on it. He learns to know what benefits people and stays away from mentioning those things. He must be very careful, for any of his statement can catch the fringes of the important and shift it. Other than that, he can speak lies as much as he wants. About the things that they have no idea of, for example. He earns people’s trust into a fact that he would never speak about the important things. What Bod is talking about is not important. They can take it to the bank. Once they think so, he can return and attack benefits. There is nothing important now, for he seems to speaks about everything. Either an unimportant thing is true or false does not make difference under a certain point. The only thing they know for sure that Bob would never speak about it if it would be of any importance. The only thing that is left true is Bob.
New contributor
New contributor
answered 8 hours ago
Vadum RVadum R
393
393
New contributor
New contributor
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Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or he lies all the time. In which case nothing changes.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob says a variation of
"[Person's name] doesn't know about my inability to tell the truth"
Then his power will kick in and cause that person to know about Bob's power somehow. Bob can work out the exact phrasing with trial and error.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob says a variation of
"[Person's name] doesn't know about my inability to tell the truth"
Then his power will kick in and cause that person to know about Bob's power somehow. Bob can work out the exact phrasing with trial and error.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Bob says a variation of
"[Person's name] doesn't know about my inability to tell the truth"
Then his power will kick in and cause that person to know about Bob's power somehow. Bob can work out the exact phrasing with trial and error.
$endgroup$
Bob says a variation of
"[Person's name] doesn't know about my inability to tell the truth"
Then his power will kick in and cause that person to know about Bob's power somehow. Bob can work out the exact phrasing with trial and error.
answered 8 hours ago
Grant DavisGrant Davis
61935
61935
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Or the person drops dead. In which case it would be against the rules. So nothing happens.
$endgroup$
– Justin Thyme
6 hours ago
add a comment |
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– L.Dutch♦
6 hours ago
$begingroup$
Why can't he state that "you didn't score 99/100 on a test" (although you did), then nothing changes, and everyone who knows Bob would eventually get to know that what he says is true, you just have to remove one negation?
$endgroup$
– Headcrab
2 hours ago
$begingroup$
How far is 'statements' taken in your question? If Bob doesn't talk, but brings flowers to a girl every day, gesturing (no ASL, just, you know, pointing and stuff) his great admiration and love for her, would that be a 'statement' of 'I love you' (with reality conspiring to make that untrue(however that would work with your caveats about memory, personality, etc))?
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– bukwyrm
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
So what would happen if he is suicidal and says, "the sun exists"?
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– Gnudiff
1 hour ago
$begingroup$
@Gnudiff I hope it would be as simple as us using it's name (Sol) instead of "the sun"
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– Baldrickk
26 mins ago