Knew, realized + the past/present Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Adjective + the present/pastCan we use past perfect progressive in the context where present tense is predominantly used?Present tense in a question with verb in past tensePast present future all in one word?When to use the present or the past perfect tense?Using “literary present” with past perfectSimple Present. They build a house next to mine. Why is it wrong?An event in 2009, disconnected to the present day, yet present tense is used. Why?When do you use “this is because” in the present tense versus “this was because” in the past tense?Present tense in the narrative past tenseAdjective + the present/past
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Knew, realized + the past/present
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Adjective + the present/pastCan we use past perfect progressive in the context where present tense is predominantly used?Present tense in a question with verb in past tensePast present future all in one word?When to use the present or the past perfect tense?Using “literary present” with past perfectSimple Present. They build a house next to mine. Why is it wrong?An event in 2009, disconnected to the present day, yet present tense is used. Why?When do you use “this is because” in the present tense versus “this was because” in the past tense?Present tense in the narrative past tenseAdjective + the present/past
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
Please consider the following:
- I knew the building (IS/WAS) thirty feet tall.
- They realized I (AM/WAS) his son.
My question: both those clauses contain general truths. So, do I need to use the present, or the past?
tenses past-tense present-tense sequence-of-tenses agreement
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
add a comment |
Please consider the following:
- I knew the building (IS/WAS) thirty feet tall.
- They realized I (AM/WAS) his son.
My question: both those clauses contain general truths. So, do I need to use the present, or the past?
tenses past-tense present-tense sequence-of-tenses agreement
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
add a comment |
Please consider the following:
- I knew the building (IS/WAS) thirty feet tall.
- They realized I (AM/WAS) his son.
My question: both those clauses contain general truths. So, do I need to use the present, or the past?
tenses past-tense present-tense sequence-of-tenses agreement
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
Please consider the following:
- I knew the building (IS/WAS) thirty feet tall.
- They realized I (AM/WAS) his son.
My question: both those clauses contain general truths. So, do I need to use the present, or the past?
tenses past-tense present-tense sequence-of-tenses agreement
tenses past-tense present-tense sequence-of-tenses agreement
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
edited Apr 6 at 16:08
TrevorD
10.7k22658
10.7k22658
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
asked Mar 26 at 1:26
Fadli SheikhFadli Sheikh
123
123
add a comment |
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
If the clause after knew or realized is a general truth, or more specifically, if it is still true, we can use either the past or the present.
This website, talking about backshifting, says
Backshifting occurs not only with indirect speech, but also with reported feelings and thoughts expressed frequently with verbs such as know, think, realize, and forget.
and
In certain situations, the sequence of tense rules are relaxed and backshifting is not required. Essentially, backshifting is not required if a statement about the present or future still holds. . . .
So the rules for verbs like realized and knew are the same as the reported speech: if the fact is still true, then you can use either the past or the present. In speech and writing,
we usually use the past unless there is some reason to emphasize that the fact is still true.
If you want an actual example in print, in New York Magazine, in 1972, Mario Puzo says about Francis Ford Coppola:
That's when I knew he was really a director.
Coppola never stopped being a director. And Mario Puzo presumably spoke English well: he was born in New York, and is the author of the book The Godfather, and coauthor of The Godfather screenplay, which Coppola directed.
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
1
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
|
show 7 more comments
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1 Answer
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If the clause after knew or realized is a general truth, or more specifically, if it is still true, we can use either the past or the present.
This website, talking about backshifting, says
Backshifting occurs not only with indirect speech, but also with reported feelings and thoughts expressed frequently with verbs such as know, think, realize, and forget.
and
In certain situations, the sequence of tense rules are relaxed and backshifting is not required. Essentially, backshifting is not required if a statement about the present or future still holds. . . .
So the rules for verbs like realized and knew are the same as the reported speech: if the fact is still true, then you can use either the past or the present. In speech and writing,
we usually use the past unless there is some reason to emphasize that the fact is still true.
If you want an actual example in print, in New York Magazine, in 1972, Mario Puzo says about Francis Ford Coppola:
That's when I knew he was really a director.
Coppola never stopped being a director. And Mario Puzo presumably spoke English well: he was born in New York, and is the author of the book The Godfather, and coauthor of The Godfather screenplay, which Coppola directed.
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
1
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
|
show 7 more comments
If the clause after knew or realized is a general truth, or more specifically, if it is still true, we can use either the past or the present.
This website, talking about backshifting, says
Backshifting occurs not only with indirect speech, but also with reported feelings and thoughts expressed frequently with verbs such as know, think, realize, and forget.
and
In certain situations, the sequence of tense rules are relaxed and backshifting is not required. Essentially, backshifting is not required if a statement about the present or future still holds. . . .
So the rules for verbs like realized and knew are the same as the reported speech: if the fact is still true, then you can use either the past or the present. In speech and writing,
we usually use the past unless there is some reason to emphasize that the fact is still true.
If you want an actual example in print, in New York Magazine, in 1972, Mario Puzo says about Francis Ford Coppola:
That's when I knew he was really a director.
Coppola never stopped being a director. And Mario Puzo presumably spoke English well: he was born in New York, and is the author of the book The Godfather, and coauthor of The Godfather screenplay, which Coppola directed.
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
1
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
|
show 7 more comments
If the clause after knew or realized is a general truth, or more specifically, if it is still true, we can use either the past or the present.
This website, talking about backshifting, says
Backshifting occurs not only with indirect speech, but also with reported feelings and thoughts expressed frequently with verbs such as know, think, realize, and forget.
and
In certain situations, the sequence of tense rules are relaxed and backshifting is not required. Essentially, backshifting is not required if a statement about the present or future still holds. . . .
So the rules for verbs like realized and knew are the same as the reported speech: if the fact is still true, then you can use either the past or the present. In speech and writing,
we usually use the past unless there is some reason to emphasize that the fact is still true.
If you want an actual example in print, in New York Magazine, in 1972, Mario Puzo says about Francis Ford Coppola:
That's when I knew he was really a director.
Coppola never stopped being a director. And Mario Puzo presumably spoke English well: he was born in New York, and is the author of the book The Godfather, and coauthor of The Godfather screenplay, which Coppola directed.
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
If the clause after knew or realized is a general truth, or more specifically, if it is still true, we can use either the past or the present.
This website, talking about backshifting, says
Backshifting occurs not only with indirect speech, but also with reported feelings and thoughts expressed frequently with verbs such as know, think, realize, and forget.
and
In certain situations, the sequence of tense rules are relaxed and backshifting is not required. Essentially, backshifting is not required if a statement about the present or future still holds. . . .
So the rules for verbs like realized and knew are the same as the reported speech: if the fact is still true, then you can use either the past or the present. In speech and writing,
we usually use the past unless there is some reason to emphasize that the fact is still true.
If you want an actual example in print, in New York Magazine, in 1972, Mario Puzo says about Francis Ford Coppola:
That's when I knew he was really a director.
Coppola never stopped being a director. And Mario Puzo presumably spoke English well: he was born in New York, and is the author of the book The Godfather, and coauthor of The Godfather screenplay, which Coppola directed.
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
edited Mar 27 at 10:25
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
answered Mar 27 at 10:05
Peter Shor Peter Shor
63.4k5123230
63.4k5123230
1
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
|
show 7 more comments
1
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
1
1
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
Yes. Swan in Practical English Usage (p276) says: After past reporting verbs, we usually change the original tenses even if the things the original speaker says are still true. 'I told the police I was British. (The speaker still is British').
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 10:28
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@Shoe I agree with Peter’s answer but I think it can’t be supported to say what most English speakers say. I’ve seen a lot of variations and situations which necessitate changing “rules.”
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 11:05
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
@michael_timofeev. Both Peter Shor above and Swan state that backshift 'usually' takes place. And both Swan and ThoughtCo say that backshift is not required if, in Swan's words, "the original speaker's present and future are still present and future". So in general I agree that it is unhelpful to talk of rules at all in this context. But I'm not sure I agree that Peter's answer 'can't be supported by what most English speakers say'. Perhaps I'll do some research on this if I can find the time.
– Shoe
Mar 27 at 13:02
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
Maybe I should comment more on that word "usually". I would say that backshift is the default, but there are lots of situations where you make an exception because the fact that it's still true is relevant, important, or even just interesting.
– Peter Shor
Mar 27 at 13:08
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
@Shoe I respect Swan as a source but the problem with researching this is how does one find out what st least a billion people consider normal or usually say? It treats language as some kind of mathematical law which people are compelled to obey. I think the answer is fine but this one is more open than other questions which are more cut and dried so to speak. Google books is the wrong place to go for support as it is written language.
– michael_timofeev
Mar 27 at 13:09
|
show 7 more comments
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