Meaning of “half-crown enclosure”
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In the novel "Brighton Rock", Graham Greene refers to a "half-crown enclosure" in the context of horse racing.
My guess is that it may refer to a type of horse race where half-crown refers to a betting limit, or the size of the purse or payout.
Alternatively, the phrase may refer to a type of race track.
I tried searching the internet but found no explanation except for a few vintage postcards.
Any insights would be appreciated.
idioms
add a comment |
In the novel "Brighton Rock", Graham Greene refers to a "half-crown enclosure" in the context of horse racing.
My guess is that it may refer to a type of horse race where half-crown refers to a betting limit, or the size of the purse or payout.
Alternatively, the phrase may refer to a type of race track.
I tried searching the internet but found no explanation except for a few vintage postcards.
Any insights would be appreciated.
idioms
Welcome to ELU, Marc. This is a free combination (like 'intelligent boy') rather than a collocation ('strong tea') or compound ('camomile tea'). It might as well be a 'five-bob enclosure' or a 'two-and-ninepence enclosure' – or 'the ten-bob stands'. The premodifier merely states the admission price to the stated restricted part of the racecourse.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 19 at 16:41
Not an answer, but here's an article on that (dated 30 years before the book). See p. 444: books.google.com/….
– KannE
May 19 at 23:08
add a comment |
In the novel "Brighton Rock", Graham Greene refers to a "half-crown enclosure" in the context of horse racing.
My guess is that it may refer to a type of horse race where half-crown refers to a betting limit, or the size of the purse or payout.
Alternatively, the phrase may refer to a type of race track.
I tried searching the internet but found no explanation except for a few vintage postcards.
Any insights would be appreciated.
idioms
In the novel "Brighton Rock", Graham Greene refers to a "half-crown enclosure" in the context of horse racing.
My guess is that it may refer to a type of horse race where half-crown refers to a betting limit, or the size of the purse or payout.
Alternatively, the phrase may refer to a type of race track.
I tried searching the internet but found no explanation except for a few vintage postcards.
Any insights would be appreciated.
idioms
idioms
asked May 19 at 14:25
Marc AudetMarc Audet
1414 bronze badges
1414 bronze badges
Welcome to ELU, Marc. This is a free combination (like 'intelligent boy') rather than a collocation ('strong tea') or compound ('camomile tea'). It might as well be a 'five-bob enclosure' or a 'two-and-ninepence enclosure' – or 'the ten-bob stands'. The premodifier merely states the admission price to the stated restricted part of the racecourse.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 19 at 16:41
Not an answer, but here's an article on that (dated 30 years before the book). See p. 444: books.google.com/….
– KannE
May 19 at 23:08
add a comment |
Welcome to ELU, Marc. This is a free combination (like 'intelligent boy') rather than a collocation ('strong tea') or compound ('camomile tea'). It might as well be a 'five-bob enclosure' or a 'two-and-ninepence enclosure' – or 'the ten-bob stands'. The premodifier merely states the admission price to the stated restricted part of the racecourse.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 19 at 16:41
Not an answer, but here's an article on that (dated 30 years before the book). See p. 444: books.google.com/….
– KannE
May 19 at 23:08
Welcome to ELU, Marc. This is a free combination (like 'intelligent boy') rather than a collocation ('strong tea') or compound ('camomile tea'). It might as well be a 'five-bob enclosure' or a 'two-and-ninepence enclosure' – or 'the ten-bob stands'. The premodifier merely states the admission price to the stated restricted part of the racecourse.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 19 at 16:41
Welcome to ELU, Marc. This is a free combination (like 'intelligent boy') rather than a collocation ('strong tea') or compound ('camomile tea'). It might as well be a 'five-bob enclosure' or a 'two-and-ninepence enclosure' – or 'the ten-bob stands'. The premodifier merely states the admission price to the stated restricted part of the racecourse.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 19 at 16:41
Not an answer, but here's an article on that (dated 30 years before the book). See p. 444: books.google.com/….
– KannE
May 19 at 23:08
Not an answer, but here's an article on that (dated 30 years before the book). See p. 444: books.google.com/….
– KannE
May 19 at 23:08
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
A half-crown is an obsolete, pre-decimal British coin. A crown was worth 5 shillings old money (= 25p now) so a half-crown was worth 2s 6d or 12.5p decimal. There were 8 of them to the pound sterling.
A half-crown enclosure would have been a spectator area where the admission fee was a half-crown, probably with a better view of the track or finish line.
I can find 2 references to this phrase where the meaning can be inferred from the context
A report of the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting 7th paragraph
There is also a photograph of a spectator area entitled half-crown enclosure
and
an 1882 report of a horse race meeting in Australia
1
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
1
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
1
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
2
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
1
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
|
show 7 more comments
Here is an example from the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting (an automobile race, in this case):
4
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
1
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
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A half-crown is an obsolete, pre-decimal British coin. A crown was worth 5 shillings old money (= 25p now) so a half-crown was worth 2s 6d or 12.5p decimal. There were 8 of them to the pound sterling.
A half-crown enclosure would have been a spectator area where the admission fee was a half-crown, probably with a better view of the track or finish line.
I can find 2 references to this phrase where the meaning can be inferred from the context
A report of the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting 7th paragraph
There is also a photograph of a spectator area entitled half-crown enclosure
and
an 1882 report of a horse race meeting in Australia
1
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
1
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
1
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
2
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
1
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
|
show 7 more comments
A half-crown is an obsolete, pre-decimal British coin. A crown was worth 5 shillings old money (= 25p now) so a half-crown was worth 2s 6d or 12.5p decimal. There were 8 of them to the pound sterling.
A half-crown enclosure would have been a spectator area where the admission fee was a half-crown, probably with a better view of the track or finish line.
I can find 2 references to this phrase where the meaning can be inferred from the context
A report of the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting 7th paragraph
There is also a photograph of a spectator area entitled half-crown enclosure
and
an 1882 report of a horse race meeting in Australia
1
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
1
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
1
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
2
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
1
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
|
show 7 more comments
A half-crown is an obsolete, pre-decimal British coin. A crown was worth 5 shillings old money (= 25p now) so a half-crown was worth 2s 6d or 12.5p decimal. There were 8 of them to the pound sterling.
A half-crown enclosure would have been a spectator area where the admission fee was a half-crown, probably with a better view of the track or finish line.
I can find 2 references to this phrase where the meaning can be inferred from the context
A report of the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting 7th paragraph
There is also a photograph of a spectator area entitled half-crown enclosure
and
an 1882 report of a horse race meeting in Australia
A half-crown is an obsolete, pre-decimal British coin. A crown was worth 5 shillings old money (= 25p now) so a half-crown was worth 2s 6d or 12.5p decimal. There were 8 of them to the pound sterling.
A half-crown enclosure would have been a spectator area where the admission fee was a half-crown, probably with a better view of the track or finish line.
I can find 2 references to this phrase where the meaning can be inferred from the context
A report of the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting 7th paragraph
There is also a photograph of a spectator area entitled half-crown enclosure
and
an 1882 report of a horse race meeting in Australia
edited May 19 at 15:44
answered May 19 at 14:37
Peter JenningsPeter Jennings
6852 silver badges13 bronze badges
6852 silver badges13 bronze badges
1
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
1
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
1
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
2
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
1
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
|
show 7 more comments
1
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
1
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
1
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
2
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
1
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
1
1
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
Sounds plausible. Do you have a link to back your horse so to speak...
– S Conroy
May 19 at 15:08
1
1
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
I've found two references that give this interpretation from their context.<br>. One is from a very old (1882) horse race report in an Australian newspaper [trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/91466102] and the other from a 1907 report of the opening meeting at Brooklands motor racing track [gracesguide.co.uk/1907_Brooklands_1st_Race_Meeting] 7th paragraph and a photograph ow what appears to be a spectator enclosure
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:24
1
1
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
@SConroy Thanks for the comment, I've done as you suggested. by all means add to the answers, I'd be interested in seeing a different result.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 15:46
2
2
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
As Mark Hubbard's answer shows, the half-crown enclosure was the cheapest. It would have been better than no enclosure but it was clearly not prestigious. Even in those days 12½p was not a lot of money.
– David Robinson
May 19 at 21:52
1
1
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
@David Robinson A half crown (or, colloquially, a half dollar) wasn't the equivalent of a 10p, that was a florin. There were 20 shillings to the pound, a shilling became 5 new pence (instead of 12 old ones) so there were 10 florins to the pound. The half crown was worth two shillings and sixpence so was, as you say, worth 12.5 new pence. The half crown wasn't replaced by a new coin but the florin was replaced by the 10p. In Greene's time half a dollar was a fair bit of cash, enough to buy four or five pints of beer. It would probably be the equivalent of about £10 to £15 by now.
– BoldBen
May 20 at 0:52
|
show 7 more comments
Here is an example from the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting (an automobile race, in this case):
4
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
1
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
add a comment |
Here is an example from the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting (an automobile race, in this case):
4
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
1
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
add a comment |
Here is an example from the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting (an automobile race, in this case):
Here is an example from the 1907 Brooklands 1st Race Meeting (an automobile race, in this case):
answered May 19 at 16:00
Mark HubbardMark Hubbard
6,2652 gold badges11 silver badges31 bronze badges
6,2652 gold badges11 silver badges31 bronze badges
4
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
1
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
add a comment |
4
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
1
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
4
4
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
I think that rather confirms that it was the admission price to the viewing area. I don't think there were any bookmakers at British motor racing circuits so it wouldn't be the price of a bet.
– Peter Jennings
May 19 at 16:16
1
1
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
Peter Jennings - FT Harris ("Long Tom") was a famous bookmaker who operated at Brooklands in the 1920s: "Many of your readers will recollect the difficulty I had in persuading the Brooklands authorities that it was to their advantage to alter their regulations so as to permit of my making a book in the Paddock." - Making a Book at Brooklands - Motor Sport magazine, April 1925
– Michael Harvey
May 19 at 19:41
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
@MichaelHarvey Thanks, I was not aware of that.
– Peter Jennings
May 20 at 2:02
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
I must say I think the idea of on-course betting at motor races is weird.
– Michael Harvey
May 20 at 11:18
add a comment |
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Welcome to ELU, Marc. This is a free combination (like 'intelligent boy') rather than a collocation ('strong tea') or compound ('camomile tea'). It might as well be a 'five-bob enclosure' or a 'two-and-ninepence enclosure' – or 'the ten-bob stands'. The premodifier merely states the admission price to the stated restricted part of the racecourse.
– Edwin Ashworth
May 19 at 16:41
Not an answer, but here's an article on that (dated 30 years before the book). See p. 444: books.google.com/….
– KannE
May 19 at 23:08