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Pronouncing Homer as in modern Greek



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?Does learning Modern Greek improve one's knowledge of Ancient Greek?Translating “Pigasus” into GreekGreek word for batteryThe Articles ὁ/τοῦ/τὸν in Classical Greek Names (Greek)Help translating some Attic GreekIdentifying corrupted Sappho fragment or mention of Sappho found in just-newly-found-online Spanish edition of SapphoAbout Sappho Lobel-Page 104(a)About Sappho Lobel-Page 101ἰχθύβολος ἄναξ, Fisher King (Greek)Paraphrasing Prometheus Bound (Greek)










6















25 years ago I was reasonably good in modern Greek, could read Popeye comic books and have a basic conversation with a taxi driver. I was thinking it would be a fun and challenging project to try to learn enough ancient Greek to read Homer. I assume this would take several years of pretty intensive part-time study. I'm worried/uncomfortable about interference between my remaining modern Greek and Homeric Greek.



For pronunciation, is anything likely to go wrong if I just mentally pronounce Homer using modern pronunciation? Pronouncing βλέπω as "blepo" rather than "vlepo" actually gives me an involuntary feeling of ridiculousness. It just sounds extremely silly to my ear. I don't even know if Homer rhymes or has meter, but if so, will this get messed up? For example, οίκος is two syllables in modern Greek, but I assume it's three in ancient Greek.



I'm reluctant to put a lot of effort into programming the ancient language into my brain if that then means I'll be stumbling and unable to speak if I ever go back to Greece.










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    For anyone coming here from HNQ (or similar) who was confused to see a question about Greek on Latin Language, this is on-topic.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 26 at 12:58











  • Homers texts are good examples for Dactylic hexameter (Odýsseia and Iliás). Iliás first line: μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος -> dactyl, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, dactyl, spondee

    – Offler
    Mar 26 at 16:01















6















25 years ago I was reasonably good in modern Greek, could read Popeye comic books and have a basic conversation with a taxi driver. I was thinking it would be a fun and challenging project to try to learn enough ancient Greek to read Homer. I assume this would take several years of pretty intensive part-time study. I'm worried/uncomfortable about interference between my remaining modern Greek and Homeric Greek.



For pronunciation, is anything likely to go wrong if I just mentally pronounce Homer using modern pronunciation? Pronouncing βλέπω as "blepo" rather than "vlepo" actually gives me an involuntary feeling of ridiculousness. It just sounds extremely silly to my ear. I don't even know if Homer rhymes or has meter, but if so, will this get messed up? For example, οίκος is two syllables in modern Greek, but I assume it's three in ancient Greek.



I'm reluctant to put a lot of effort into programming the ancient language into my brain if that then means I'll be stumbling and unable to speak if I ever go back to Greece.










share|improve this question

















  • 1





    For anyone coming here from HNQ (or similar) who was confused to see a question about Greek on Latin Language, this is on-topic.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 26 at 12:58











  • Homers texts are good examples for Dactylic hexameter (Odýsseia and Iliás). Iliás first line: μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος -> dactyl, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, dactyl, spondee

    – Offler
    Mar 26 at 16:01













6












6








6








25 years ago I was reasonably good in modern Greek, could read Popeye comic books and have a basic conversation with a taxi driver. I was thinking it would be a fun and challenging project to try to learn enough ancient Greek to read Homer. I assume this would take several years of pretty intensive part-time study. I'm worried/uncomfortable about interference between my remaining modern Greek and Homeric Greek.



For pronunciation, is anything likely to go wrong if I just mentally pronounce Homer using modern pronunciation? Pronouncing βλέπω as "blepo" rather than "vlepo" actually gives me an involuntary feeling of ridiculousness. It just sounds extremely silly to my ear. I don't even know if Homer rhymes or has meter, but if so, will this get messed up? For example, οίκος is two syllables in modern Greek, but I assume it's three in ancient Greek.



I'm reluctant to put a lot of effort into programming the ancient language into my brain if that then means I'll be stumbling and unable to speak if I ever go back to Greece.










share|improve this question














25 years ago I was reasonably good in modern Greek, could read Popeye comic books and have a basic conversation with a taxi driver. I was thinking it would be a fun and challenging project to try to learn enough ancient Greek to read Homer. I assume this would take several years of pretty intensive part-time study. I'm worried/uncomfortable about interference between my remaining modern Greek and Homeric Greek.



For pronunciation, is anything likely to go wrong if I just mentally pronounce Homer using modern pronunciation? Pronouncing βλέπω as "blepo" rather than "vlepo" actually gives me an involuntary feeling of ridiculousness. It just sounds extremely silly to my ear. I don't even know if Homer rhymes or has meter, but if so, will this get messed up? For example, οίκος is two syllables in modern Greek, but I assume it's three in ancient Greek.



I'm reluctant to put a lot of effort into programming the ancient language into my brain if that then means I'll be stumbling and unable to speak if I ever go back to Greece.







greek homer






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked Mar 25 at 20:05









Ben CrowellBen Crowell

1335




1335







  • 1





    For anyone coming here from HNQ (or similar) who was confused to see a question about Greek on Latin Language, this is on-topic.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 26 at 12:58











  • Homers texts are good examples for Dactylic hexameter (Odýsseia and Iliás). Iliás first line: μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος -> dactyl, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, dactyl, spondee

    – Offler
    Mar 26 at 16:01












  • 1





    For anyone coming here from HNQ (or similar) who was confused to see a question about Greek on Latin Language, this is on-topic.

    – Lightness Races in Orbit
    Mar 26 at 12:58











  • Homers texts are good examples for Dactylic hexameter (Odýsseia and Iliás). Iliás first line: μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος -> dactyl, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, dactyl, spondee

    – Offler
    Mar 26 at 16:01







1




1





For anyone coming here from HNQ (or similar) who was confused to see a question about Greek on Latin Language, this is on-topic.

– Lightness Races in Orbit
Mar 26 at 12:58





For anyone coming here from HNQ (or similar) who was confused to see a question about Greek on Latin Language, this is on-topic.

– Lightness Races in Orbit
Mar 26 at 12:58













Homers texts are good examples for Dactylic hexameter (Odýsseia and Iliás). Iliás first line: μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος -> dactyl, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, dactyl, spondee

– Offler
Mar 26 at 16:01





Homers texts are good examples for Dactylic hexameter (Odýsseia and Iliás). Iliás first line: μῆνιν ἄειδε, θεά, Πηληϊάδεω Ἀχιλῆος -> dactyl, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, dactyl, spondee

– Offler
Mar 26 at 16:01










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















13














The differences aren't really too intense, fortunately. Here are the big ones:



  • β, δ, γ, φ, θ, χ are fricatives in Modern Greek but plosives in Ancient Greek. If you substitute one for the other, nothing much really changes: my introductory Greek professor was from Greece and used the fricative pronunciation, and we understood him just fine.

  • Homer's Greek had a few sounds that Modern Greek has lost completely, like the English "w" and "h". These won't cause huge problems if you ignore them, though you'll sometimes see weird alternations in prefixes that won't make a lot of sense.

  • Ancient Greek had a whole lot more vowels. In Epic Greek in particular, α, ε, η, ει, ι, υ, ου, ω, ο, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ were all pronounced differently. Keeping their pronunciations distinct will help you keep them straight in your head, and make learning words easier.

  • Ancient Greek had vowel length. This is the big one: out of the vowels listed above, α, ε, ι, υ, ο are short, while η, ει, ου, ω, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ are all long. And this is what Homer's meter is primarily based on. If you pronounce the vowels like in Modern Greek, the meter won't make as much sense.

I'd suggest learning the ancient pronunciations of the vowels, but not particularly worrying about the consonants. Even if you pronounce Modern Greek a bit more like Ancient, people will still understand you (though they might think you have a bit of an accent).






share|improve this answer






























    4














    Homer does have meter. Whether or not it's worth it to learn how to read Homer's poetry aloud with meter is a matter of opinion; you'll have to decide for yourself. I think that native Greek speakers learning Homer typically give the usual modern Greek pronunciations to the letters and letter combinations (I don't know Greek at all, so don't take my word for it, but the only thing I can think of that might be different is that ι might not be given its non-syllabic value after a consonant the way it often is in modern Greek pronunciation).



    The pronunciation of consonants like β isn't related to meter. The main Greek sound change that is relevant to meter is the loss of vowel and consonant length. Ancient Greek meter is based on patterns of long and short (or "heavy" and "light") syllables.



    The Ancient Greek word οἶκος was two syllables, but the first syllable was heavy because it contained the diphthong οι.






    share|improve this answer

























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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      13














      The differences aren't really too intense, fortunately. Here are the big ones:



      • β, δ, γ, φ, θ, χ are fricatives in Modern Greek but plosives in Ancient Greek. If you substitute one for the other, nothing much really changes: my introductory Greek professor was from Greece and used the fricative pronunciation, and we understood him just fine.

      • Homer's Greek had a few sounds that Modern Greek has lost completely, like the English "w" and "h". These won't cause huge problems if you ignore them, though you'll sometimes see weird alternations in prefixes that won't make a lot of sense.

      • Ancient Greek had a whole lot more vowels. In Epic Greek in particular, α, ε, η, ει, ι, υ, ου, ω, ο, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ were all pronounced differently. Keeping their pronunciations distinct will help you keep them straight in your head, and make learning words easier.

      • Ancient Greek had vowel length. This is the big one: out of the vowels listed above, α, ε, ι, υ, ο are short, while η, ει, ου, ω, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ are all long. And this is what Homer's meter is primarily based on. If you pronounce the vowels like in Modern Greek, the meter won't make as much sense.

      I'd suggest learning the ancient pronunciations of the vowels, but not particularly worrying about the consonants. Even if you pronounce Modern Greek a bit more like Ancient, people will still understand you (though they might think you have a bit of an accent).






      share|improve this answer



























        13














        The differences aren't really too intense, fortunately. Here are the big ones:



        • β, δ, γ, φ, θ, χ are fricatives in Modern Greek but plosives in Ancient Greek. If you substitute one for the other, nothing much really changes: my introductory Greek professor was from Greece and used the fricative pronunciation, and we understood him just fine.

        • Homer's Greek had a few sounds that Modern Greek has lost completely, like the English "w" and "h". These won't cause huge problems if you ignore them, though you'll sometimes see weird alternations in prefixes that won't make a lot of sense.

        • Ancient Greek had a whole lot more vowels. In Epic Greek in particular, α, ε, η, ει, ι, υ, ου, ω, ο, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ were all pronounced differently. Keeping their pronunciations distinct will help you keep them straight in your head, and make learning words easier.

        • Ancient Greek had vowel length. This is the big one: out of the vowels listed above, α, ε, ι, υ, ο are short, while η, ει, ου, ω, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ are all long. And this is what Homer's meter is primarily based on. If you pronounce the vowels like in Modern Greek, the meter won't make as much sense.

        I'd suggest learning the ancient pronunciations of the vowels, but not particularly worrying about the consonants. Even if you pronounce Modern Greek a bit more like Ancient, people will still understand you (though they might think you have a bit of an accent).






        share|improve this answer

























          13












          13








          13







          The differences aren't really too intense, fortunately. Here are the big ones:



          • β, δ, γ, φ, θ, χ are fricatives in Modern Greek but plosives in Ancient Greek. If you substitute one for the other, nothing much really changes: my introductory Greek professor was from Greece and used the fricative pronunciation, and we understood him just fine.

          • Homer's Greek had a few sounds that Modern Greek has lost completely, like the English "w" and "h". These won't cause huge problems if you ignore them, though you'll sometimes see weird alternations in prefixes that won't make a lot of sense.

          • Ancient Greek had a whole lot more vowels. In Epic Greek in particular, α, ε, η, ει, ι, υ, ου, ω, ο, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ were all pronounced differently. Keeping their pronunciations distinct will help you keep them straight in your head, and make learning words easier.

          • Ancient Greek had vowel length. This is the big one: out of the vowels listed above, α, ε, ι, υ, ο are short, while η, ει, ου, ω, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ are all long. And this is what Homer's meter is primarily based on. If you pronounce the vowels like in Modern Greek, the meter won't make as much sense.

          I'd suggest learning the ancient pronunciations of the vowels, but not particularly worrying about the consonants. Even if you pronounce Modern Greek a bit more like Ancient, people will still understand you (though they might think you have a bit of an accent).






          share|improve this answer













          The differences aren't really too intense, fortunately. Here are the big ones:



          • β, δ, γ, φ, θ, χ are fricatives in Modern Greek but plosives in Ancient Greek. If you substitute one for the other, nothing much really changes: my introductory Greek professor was from Greece and used the fricative pronunciation, and we understood him just fine.

          • Homer's Greek had a few sounds that Modern Greek has lost completely, like the English "w" and "h". These won't cause huge problems if you ignore them, though you'll sometimes see weird alternations in prefixes that won't make a lot of sense.

          • Ancient Greek had a whole lot more vowels. In Epic Greek in particular, α, ε, η, ει, ι, υ, ου, ω, ο, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ were all pronounced differently. Keeping their pronunciations distinct will help you keep them straight in your head, and make learning words easier.

          • Ancient Greek had vowel length. This is the big one: out of the vowels listed above, α, ε, ι, υ, ο are short, while η, ει, ου, ω, αι, οι, υι, ῳ, ῃ, ᾳ, ᾱ, ῑ, ῡ are all long. And this is what Homer's meter is primarily based on. If you pronounce the vowels like in Modern Greek, the meter won't make as much sense.

          I'd suggest learning the ancient pronunciations of the vowels, but not particularly worrying about the consonants. Even if you pronounce Modern Greek a bit more like Ancient, people will still understand you (though they might think you have a bit of an accent).







          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Mar 25 at 20:28









          DraconisDraconis

          18.9k22677




          18.9k22677





















              4














              Homer does have meter. Whether or not it's worth it to learn how to read Homer's poetry aloud with meter is a matter of opinion; you'll have to decide for yourself. I think that native Greek speakers learning Homer typically give the usual modern Greek pronunciations to the letters and letter combinations (I don't know Greek at all, so don't take my word for it, but the only thing I can think of that might be different is that ι might not be given its non-syllabic value after a consonant the way it often is in modern Greek pronunciation).



              The pronunciation of consonants like β isn't related to meter. The main Greek sound change that is relevant to meter is the loss of vowel and consonant length. Ancient Greek meter is based on patterns of long and short (or "heavy" and "light") syllables.



              The Ancient Greek word οἶκος was two syllables, but the first syllable was heavy because it contained the diphthong οι.






              share|improve this answer





























                4














                Homer does have meter. Whether or not it's worth it to learn how to read Homer's poetry aloud with meter is a matter of opinion; you'll have to decide for yourself. I think that native Greek speakers learning Homer typically give the usual modern Greek pronunciations to the letters and letter combinations (I don't know Greek at all, so don't take my word for it, but the only thing I can think of that might be different is that ι might not be given its non-syllabic value after a consonant the way it often is in modern Greek pronunciation).



                The pronunciation of consonants like β isn't related to meter. The main Greek sound change that is relevant to meter is the loss of vowel and consonant length. Ancient Greek meter is based on patterns of long and short (or "heavy" and "light") syllables.



                The Ancient Greek word οἶκος was two syllables, but the first syllable was heavy because it contained the diphthong οι.






                share|improve this answer



























                  4












                  4








                  4







                  Homer does have meter. Whether or not it's worth it to learn how to read Homer's poetry aloud with meter is a matter of opinion; you'll have to decide for yourself. I think that native Greek speakers learning Homer typically give the usual modern Greek pronunciations to the letters and letter combinations (I don't know Greek at all, so don't take my word for it, but the only thing I can think of that might be different is that ι might not be given its non-syllabic value after a consonant the way it often is in modern Greek pronunciation).



                  The pronunciation of consonants like β isn't related to meter. The main Greek sound change that is relevant to meter is the loss of vowel and consonant length. Ancient Greek meter is based on patterns of long and short (or "heavy" and "light") syllables.



                  The Ancient Greek word οἶκος was two syllables, but the first syllable was heavy because it contained the diphthong οι.






                  share|improve this answer















                  Homer does have meter. Whether or not it's worth it to learn how to read Homer's poetry aloud with meter is a matter of opinion; you'll have to decide for yourself. I think that native Greek speakers learning Homer typically give the usual modern Greek pronunciations to the letters and letter combinations (I don't know Greek at all, so don't take my word for it, but the only thing I can think of that might be different is that ι might not be given its non-syllabic value after a consonant the way it often is in modern Greek pronunciation).



                  The pronunciation of consonants like β isn't related to meter. The main Greek sound change that is relevant to meter is the loss of vowel and consonant length. Ancient Greek meter is based on patterns of long and short (or "heavy" and "light") syllables.



                  The Ancient Greek word οἶκος was two syllables, but the first syllable was heavy because it contained the diphthong οι.







                  share|improve this answer














                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer








                  edited Mar 25 at 21:07

























                  answered Mar 25 at 20:29









                  sumelicsumelic

                  8,65111957




                  8,65111957



























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Hall Of Fame””Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Bullet-For My Valentine booed at Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Unholy Aliance””The End Of Slayer?””Slayer: We Could Thrash Out Two More Albums If We're Fast Enough...””'The Unholy Alliance: Chapter III' UK Dates Added”originalet”Megadeth And Slayer To Co-Headline 'Canadian Carnage' Trek”originalet”World Painted Blood””Release “World Painted Blood” by Slayer””Metallica Heading To Cinemas””Slayer, Megadeth To Join Forces For 'European Carnage' Tour - Dec. 18, 2010”originalet”Slayer's Hanneman Contracts Acute Infection; Band To Bring In Guest Guitarist””Cannibal Corpse's Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer's Guest Guitarist”originalet”Slayer’s Jeff Hanneman Dead at 49””Dave Lombardo Says He Made Only $67,000 In 2011 While Touring With Slayer””Slayer: We Do Not Agree With Dave Lombardo's Substance Or Timeline Of Events””Slayer Welcomes Drummer Paul Bostaph Back To The Fold””Slayer Hope to Unveil Never-Before-Heard Jeff Hanneman Material on Next Album””Slayer Debut New Song 'Implode' During Surprise Golden Gods Appearance””Release group Repentless by Slayer””Repentless - Slayer - Credits””Slayer””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer - to release comic book "Repentless #1"””Slayer To Release 'Repentless' 6.66" Vinyl Box Set””BREAKING NEWS: Slayer Announce Farewell Tour””Slayer Recruit Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth + Testament for Final Tour””Slayer lägger ner efter 37 år””Slayer Announces Second North American Leg Of 'Final' Tour””Final World Tour””Slayer Announces Final European Tour With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Tour Europe With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Play 'Last French Show Ever' At Next Year's Hellfst””Slayer's Final World Tour Will Extend Into 2019””Death Angel's Rob Cavestany On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour: 'Some Of Us Could See This Coming'””Testament Has No Plans To Retire Anytime Soon, Says Chuck Billy””Anthrax's Scott Ian On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour Plans: 'I Was Surprised And I Wasn't Surprised'””Slayer””Slayer's Morbid Schlock””Review/Rock; For Slayer, the Mania Is the Message””Slayer - Biography””Slayer - Reign In Blood”originalet”Dave Lombardo””An exclusive oral history of Slayer”originalet”Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman”originalet”Thinking Out Loud: Slayer's Kerry King on hair metal, Satan and being polite””Slayer Lyrics””Slayer - Biography””Most influential artists for extreme metal music””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dies aged 49””Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer””Gateway to Hell: A Tribute to Slayer””Covered In Blood””Slayer: The Origins of Thrash in San Francisco, CA.””Why They Rule - #6 Slayer”originalet”Guitar World's 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All Time”originalet”The fans have spoken: Slayer comes out on top in readers' polls”originalet”Tribute to Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)””Lamb Of God Frontman: We Sound Like A Slayer Rip-Off””BEHEMOTH Frontman Pays Tribute To SLAYER's JEFF HANNEMAN””Slayer, Hatebreed Doing Double Duty On This Year's Ozzfest””System of a Down””Lacuna Coil’s Andrea Ferro Talks Influences, Skateboarding, Band Origins + More””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Into The Lungs of Hell””Slayer rules - en utställning om fans””Slayer and Their Fans Slashed Through a No-Holds-Barred Night at Gas Monkey””Home””Slayer””Gold & Platinum - The Big 4 Live from Sofia, Bulgaria””Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Kerry King””2008-02-23: Wiltern, Los Angeles, CA, USA””Slayer's Kerry King To Perform With Megadeth Tonight! - Oct. 21, 2010”originalet”Dave Lombardo - Biography”Slayer Case DismissedArkiveradUltimate Classic Rock: Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dead at 49.”Slayer: "We could never do any thing like Some Kind Of Monster..."””Cannibal Corpse'S Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer'S Guest Guitarist | The Official Slayer Site”originalet”Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Kerrang! Awards 2006 Blog: Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Kerrang! Awards 2013: Kerrang! Legend”originalet”Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maien Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Bullet For My Valentine Booed At Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer's Concert History””Slayer - Relationships””Slayer - Releases”Slayers officiella webbplatsSlayer på MusicBrainzOfficiell webbplatsSlayerSlayerr1373445760000 0001 1540 47353068615-5086262726cb13906545x(data)6033143kn20030215029