How to balance a monster modification (zombie)?Race Creation/Modification in D&D 3.5How to balance a custom Shadow Skip power?How much should this Infectious Zombie homebrew change a zombie's challenge rating?Will changing the damage type of some spells break my game?How to balance a dragonborn breath for a mountain dwarf?Are there official guidelines on 5e feat creation or modification?How to balance the Zealot in a setting without resurrection?“Episode Boss” encounter balance assessmentDoes this Zombie Swarm Homebrew require a grapple check?Is this modification of the Vicious Mockery cantrip overpowered?

Stack Interview Code methods made from class Node and Smart Pointers

Is there a nicer/politer/more positive alternative for "negates"?

What are some good ways to treat frozen vegetables such that they behave like fresh vegetables when stir frying them?

Does the reader need to like the PoV character?

Can I say "fingers" when referring to toes?

How to align my equation to left?

Change the color of a single dot in `ddot` symbol

Are Captain Marvel's powers affected by Thanos breaking the Tesseract and claiming the stone?

Why Shazam when there is already Superman?

How to create a paid keyvalue store

Why is the "ls" command showing permissions of files in a FAT32 partition?

How do I fix the group tension caused by my character stealing and possibly killing without provocation?

Birthday Problem Paraphrased

Is there any evidence that Cleopatra and Caesarion considered fleeing to India to escape the Romans?

Find all subarray with sum equal to number?

What features enable the Su-25 Frogfoot to operate with such a wide variety of fuels?

How should you respond if you lied about your education and your company finds out through background check?

How to explain what's wrong with this application of the chain rule?

What is Cash Advance APR?

What to do when eye contact makes your coworker uncomfortable?

Do we have to expect a queue for the shuttle from Watford Junction to Harry Potter Studio?

Quoting Keynes in a lecture

What is the English pronunciation of "pain au chocolat"?

Why does the Sun have different day lengths, but not the gas giants?



How to balance a monster modification (zombie)?


Race Creation/Modification in D&D 3.5How to balance a custom Shadow Skip power?How much should this Infectious Zombie homebrew change a zombie's challenge rating?Will changing the damage type of some spells break my game?How to balance a dragonborn breath for a mountain dwarf?Are there official guidelines on 5e feat creation or modification?How to balance the Zealot in a setting without resurrection?“Episode Boss” encounter balance assessmentDoes this Zombie Swarm Homebrew require a grapple check?Is this modification of the Vicious Mockery cantrip overpowered?













8












$begingroup$


I am DM'ing a campaign called "Army of the Damned" based on Magic the Gathering: Innistrad in which a horde of zombies is attacking a town. In the 5e Monster Manual, zombies have poison immunity but no vulnerabilities. I incorrectly assumed prior that they had fire vulnerability and allowed my party to set up some flaming oil traps to deal with them. It would still work without the vulnerability, but it seems reasonable to me that they would be vulnerable to fire and possibly radiant.



How can I balance the zombie monster to be vulnerable to fire? What about adding radiant?



Alternately, as a DM, am I looking at this the wrong way?



To be clear, I am trying to maintain the CR of the zombies in question. I was not aware the DMG has a section on modifying monsters, as I have been reading it in tandem with my campaign, believing that my experience as a player would be enough to keep me from massively screwing up; that's held true so far. I will look into that tonight, but I would appreciate any experienced advice on how to do so. My second question still remains: should I really be doing this? What are the potential drawbacks?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This could be a bit opinion-based. Are you asking how you can keep the zombie balanced at the same CR if you add fire vulnerability? (And do you need to do that? I mean....being set on fire can ruin anyone's day, vulnerability or not!)
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    Mar 18 at 14:48






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Have you read the chapter on modifying monsters in the DMG? If so, which parts of it are not clear? It not, consider starting there and see if you have any follow up questions.
    $endgroup$
    – Erik
    Mar 18 at 14:52















8












$begingroup$


I am DM'ing a campaign called "Army of the Damned" based on Magic the Gathering: Innistrad in which a horde of zombies is attacking a town. In the 5e Monster Manual, zombies have poison immunity but no vulnerabilities. I incorrectly assumed prior that they had fire vulnerability and allowed my party to set up some flaming oil traps to deal with them. It would still work without the vulnerability, but it seems reasonable to me that they would be vulnerable to fire and possibly radiant.



How can I balance the zombie monster to be vulnerable to fire? What about adding radiant?



Alternately, as a DM, am I looking at this the wrong way?



To be clear, I am trying to maintain the CR of the zombies in question. I was not aware the DMG has a section on modifying monsters, as I have been reading it in tandem with my campaign, believing that my experience as a player would be enough to keep me from massively screwing up; that's held true so far. I will look into that tonight, but I would appreciate any experienced advice on how to do so. My second question still remains: should I really be doing this? What are the potential drawbacks?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This could be a bit opinion-based. Are you asking how you can keep the zombie balanced at the same CR if you add fire vulnerability? (And do you need to do that? I mean....being set on fire can ruin anyone's day, vulnerability or not!)
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    Mar 18 at 14:48






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Have you read the chapter on modifying monsters in the DMG? If so, which parts of it are not clear? It not, consider starting there and see if you have any follow up questions.
    $endgroup$
    – Erik
    Mar 18 at 14:52













8












8








8


1



$begingroup$


I am DM'ing a campaign called "Army of the Damned" based on Magic the Gathering: Innistrad in which a horde of zombies is attacking a town. In the 5e Monster Manual, zombies have poison immunity but no vulnerabilities. I incorrectly assumed prior that they had fire vulnerability and allowed my party to set up some flaming oil traps to deal with them. It would still work without the vulnerability, but it seems reasonable to me that they would be vulnerable to fire and possibly radiant.



How can I balance the zombie monster to be vulnerable to fire? What about adding radiant?



Alternately, as a DM, am I looking at this the wrong way?



To be clear, I am trying to maintain the CR of the zombies in question. I was not aware the DMG has a section on modifying monsters, as I have been reading it in tandem with my campaign, believing that my experience as a player would be enough to keep me from massively screwing up; that's held true so far. I will look into that tonight, but I would appreciate any experienced advice on how to do so. My second question still remains: should I really be doing this? What are the potential drawbacks?










share|improve this question









New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$




I am DM'ing a campaign called "Army of the Damned" based on Magic the Gathering: Innistrad in which a horde of zombies is attacking a town. In the 5e Monster Manual, zombies have poison immunity but no vulnerabilities. I incorrectly assumed prior that they had fire vulnerability and allowed my party to set up some flaming oil traps to deal with them. It would still work without the vulnerability, but it seems reasonable to me that they would be vulnerable to fire and possibly radiant.



How can I balance the zombie monster to be vulnerable to fire? What about adding radiant?



Alternately, as a DM, am I looking at this the wrong way?



To be clear, I am trying to maintain the CR of the zombies in question. I was not aware the DMG has a section on modifying monsters, as I have been reading it in tandem with my campaign, believing that my experience as a player would be enough to keep me from massively screwing up; that's held true so far. I will look into that tonight, but I would appreciate any experienced advice on how to do so. My second question still remains: should I really be doing this? What are the potential drawbacks?







dnd-5e homebrew






share|improve this question









New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Mar 18 at 15:29









Rubiksmoose

58.8k10284435




58.8k10284435






New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









asked Mar 18 at 14:41









Sean ScottSean Scott

1436




1436




New contributor




Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





New contributor





Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






Sean Scott is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This could be a bit opinion-based. Are you asking how you can keep the zombie balanced at the same CR if you add fire vulnerability? (And do you need to do that? I mean....being set on fire can ruin anyone's day, vulnerability or not!)
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    Mar 18 at 14:48






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Have you read the chapter on modifying monsters in the DMG? If so, which parts of it are not clear? It not, consider starting there and see if you have any follow up questions.
    $endgroup$
    – Erik
    Mar 18 at 14:52












  • 2




    $begingroup$
    This could be a bit opinion-based. Are you asking how you can keep the zombie balanced at the same CR if you add fire vulnerability? (And do you need to do that? I mean....being set on fire can ruin anyone's day, vulnerability or not!)
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    Mar 18 at 14:48






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Have you read the chapter on modifying monsters in the DMG? If so, which parts of it are not clear? It not, consider starting there and see if you have any follow up questions.
    $endgroup$
    – Erik
    Mar 18 at 14:52







2




2




$begingroup$
This could be a bit opinion-based. Are you asking how you can keep the zombie balanced at the same CR if you add fire vulnerability? (And do you need to do that? I mean....being set on fire can ruin anyone's day, vulnerability or not!)
$endgroup$
– PJRZ
Mar 18 at 14:48




$begingroup$
This could be a bit opinion-based. Are you asking how you can keep the zombie balanced at the same CR if you add fire vulnerability? (And do you need to do that? I mean....being set on fire can ruin anyone's day, vulnerability or not!)
$endgroup$
– PJRZ
Mar 18 at 14:48




4




4




$begingroup$
Have you read the chapter on modifying monsters in the DMG? If so, which parts of it are not clear? It not, consider starting there and see if you have any follow up questions.
$endgroup$
– Erik
Mar 18 at 14:52




$begingroup$
Have you read the chapter on modifying monsters in the DMG? If so, which parts of it are not clear? It not, consider starting there and see if you have any follow up questions.
$endgroup$
– Erik
Mar 18 at 14:52










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















22












$begingroup$

Because it feels right to you and is thematic to your campaign, I would encourage you to stick by your ruling and keep the modified zombies. As a player, I find variant creatures fun, and ret-cons a little bit immersion-breaking.



Assuming all of your players have ready access to fire damage, that's an effective halving of the zombies' hit points. In the Creating a Monster section of Chapter 9, the DMG notes "Vulnerabilities don’t significantly affect a monster’s challenge rating, unless a monster has vulnerabilities to multiple damage types that are prevalent [...]" — and in my experience with customized monsters, when players know and are prepared for the vulnerability, that's exactly the noted "unless". So, in this case, the change would alter the effective CR, unless you do something to compensate.



One easy way to leave the appearance of fire vulnerability but keep the CR is to raise the monsters' actual hit points. Once your players realize that fire is the key, you can be sure they'll use fire whenever they can, which means the effective hit points are lower than the actual ones (as described in the DMG in "step 9" of Creating a Monster Stat Block). Exactly how much to adjust by is a judgment call. If the party is only sprinkling some fire into their attacks, going from, say, 22 to 33 might be right. If they've figured out some way to always attack with fire, go ahead and just double to 44. (This is still within the range of hit points for a CR ¼ creature.) If you want them to also be directly vulnerable to radiant damage, take that into account, of course.



Zombies' hit points are already on the low end for their CR, because Undead Fortitude keeps them up and lurching. (This isn't just presumption; from the Monster Features table, this is the equivalent of additional "effective hit points".) So, another approach would be to beef up that feature — perhaps make the save DC just "damage taken" rather than "5 + damage taken". But this is a less predictable than the raw HP approach, so I don't suggest it without some playtesting and tweaking. If you also want this feature to also be shut down by fire damage, that'd be a significant additional weakening — I'd be inclined to just leave it as it is. (As an aside, there should be an in-game way for the players to learn about this bit of non-obvious lore — it takes holy fire to really make a difference.)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk
    Mar 18 at 18:21


















9












$begingroup$

You're overthinking it.



Zombies are goopy flesh, so there's no thematic reason for them to have a vulnerability to fire. They already have a radiant "vulnerability" (little 'v') baked into their Undead Fortitude ability.



If your issue is what to do with your players moving forward you can just tell them "guys I misread/misremembered and zombies aren't Vulnerable to fire". They should be understanding about it. That doesn't detract from the efficacy of their plan before. Fire still hurts and fire traps will still cause most things to have a bad day.



Vulnerability = weaker zombies



If you give them fire Vulnerability, it's going to make zombies less of a challenge. Period. I don't think it's a whole step from CR 1/4 down to CR 1/8 (see below)*, but fire damage is pretty easy to come by and your mileage may vary.




*I don't claim to be great at CR calculation, but a vulnerability does not denote an entire defensive CR step-down. Even if it did, it would only incur a total CR change of a half-step.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think that is an improvement.
    $endgroup$
    – Bloodcinder
    2 days ago










Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["\$", "\$"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "122"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);

else
createEditor();

);

function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);



);






Sean Scott is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143375%2fhow-to-balance-a-monster-modification-zombie%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









22












$begingroup$

Because it feels right to you and is thematic to your campaign, I would encourage you to stick by your ruling and keep the modified zombies. As a player, I find variant creatures fun, and ret-cons a little bit immersion-breaking.



Assuming all of your players have ready access to fire damage, that's an effective halving of the zombies' hit points. In the Creating a Monster section of Chapter 9, the DMG notes "Vulnerabilities don’t significantly affect a monster’s challenge rating, unless a monster has vulnerabilities to multiple damage types that are prevalent [...]" — and in my experience with customized monsters, when players know and are prepared for the vulnerability, that's exactly the noted "unless". So, in this case, the change would alter the effective CR, unless you do something to compensate.



One easy way to leave the appearance of fire vulnerability but keep the CR is to raise the monsters' actual hit points. Once your players realize that fire is the key, you can be sure they'll use fire whenever they can, which means the effective hit points are lower than the actual ones (as described in the DMG in "step 9" of Creating a Monster Stat Block). Exactly how much to adjust by is a judgment call. If the party is only sprinkling some fire into their attacks, going from, say, 22 to 33 might be right. If they've figured out some way to always attack with fire, go ahead and just double to 44. (This is still within the range of hit points for a CR ¼ creature.) If you want them to also be directly vulnerable to radiant damage, take that into account, of course.



Zombies' hit points are already on the low end for their CR, because Undead Fortitude keeps them up and lurching. (This isn't just presumption; from the Monster Features table, this is the equivalent of additional "effective hit points".) So, another approach would be to beef up that feature — perhaps make the save DC just "damage taken" rather than "5 + damage taken". But this is a less predictable than the raw HP approach, so I don't suggest it without some playtesting and tweaking. If you also want this feature to also be shut down by fire damage, that'd be a significant additional weakening — I'd be inclined to just leave it as it is. (As an aside, there should be an in-game way for the players to learn about this bit of non-obvious lore — it takes holy fire to really make a difference.)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk
    Mar 18 at 18:21















22












$begingroup$

Because it feels right to you and is thematic to your campaign, I would encourage you to stick by your ruling and keep the modified zombies. As a player, I find variant creatures fun, and ret-cons a little bit immersion-breaking.



Assuming all of your players have ready access to fire damage, that's an effective halving of the zombies' hit points. In the Creating a Monster section of Chapter 9, the DMG notes "Vulnerabilities don’t significantly affect a monster’s challenge rating, unless a monster has vulnerabilities to multiple damage types that are prevalent [...]" — and in my experience with customized monsters, when players know and are prepared for the vulnerability, that's exactly the noted "unless". So, in this case, the change would alter the effective CR, unless you do something to compensate.



One easy way to leave the appearance of fire vulnerability but keep the CR is to raise the monsters' actual hit points. Once your players realize that fire is the key, you can be sure they'll use fire whenever they can, which means the effective hit points are lower than the actual ones (as described in the DMG in "step 9" of Creating a Monster Stat Block). Exactly how much to adjust by is a judgment call. If the party is only sprinkling some fire into their attacks, going from, say, 22 to 33 might be right. If they've figured out some way to always attack with fire, go ahead and just double to 44. (This is still within the range of hit points for a CR ¼ creature.) If you want them to also be directly vulnerable to radiant damage, take that into account, of course.



Zombies' hit points are already on the low end for their CR, because Undead Fortitude keeps them up and lurching. (This isn't just presumption; from the Monster Features table, this is the equivalent of additional "effective hit points".) So, another approach would be to beef up that feature — perhaps make the save DC just "damage taken" rather than "5 + damage taken". But this is a less predictable than the raw HP approach, so I don't suggest it without some playtesting and tweaking. If you also want this feature to also be shut down by fire damage, that'd be a significant additional weakening — I'd be inclined to just leave it as it is. (As an aside, there should be an in-game way for the players to learn about this bit of non-obvious lore — it takes holy fire to really make a difference.)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk
    Mar 18 at 18:21













22












22








22





$begingroup$

Because it feels right to you and is thematic to your campaign, I would encourage you to stick by your ruling and keep the modified zombies. As a player, I find variant creatures fun, and ret-cons a little bit immersion-breaking.



Assuming all of your players have ready access to fire damage, that's an effective halving of the zombies' hit points. In the Creating a Monster section of Chapter 9, the DMG notes "Vulnerabilities don’t significantly affect a monster’s challenge rating, unless a monster has vulnerabilities to multiple damage types that are prevalent [...]" — and in my experience with customized monsters, when players know and are prepared for the vulnerability, that's exactly the noted "unless". So, in this case, the change would alter the effective CR, unless you do something to compensate.



One easy way to leave the appearance of fire vulnerability but keep the CR is to raise the monsters' actual hit points. Once your players realize that fire is the key, you can be sure they'll use fire whenever they can, which means the effective hit points are lower than the actual ones (as described in the DMG in "step 9" of Creating a Monster Stat Block). Exactly how much to adjust by is a judgment call. If the party is only sprinkling some fire into their attacks, going from, say, 22 to 33 might be right. If they've figured out some way to always attack with fire, go ahead and just double to 44. (This is still within the range of hit points for a CR ¼ creature.) If you want them to also be directly vulnerable to radiant damage, take that into account, of course.



Zombies' hit points are already on the low end for their CR, because Undead Fortitude keeps them up and lurching. (This isn't just presumption; from the Monster Features table, this is the equivalent of additional "effective hit points".) So, another approach would be to beef up that feature — perhaps make the save DC just "damage taken" rather than "5 + damage taken". But this is a less predictable than the raw HP approach, so I don't suggest it without some playtesting and tweaking. If you also want this feature to also be shut down by fire damage, that'd be a significant additional weakening — I'd be inclined to just leave it as it is. (As an aside, there should be an in-game way for the players to learn about this bit of non-obvious lore — it takes holy fire to really make a difference.)






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Because it feels right to you and is thematic to your campaign, I would encourage you to stick by your ruling and keep the modified zombies. As a player, I find variant creatures fun, and ret-cons a little bit immersion-breaking.



Assuming all of your players have ready access to fire damage, that's an effective halving of the zombies' hit points. In the Creating a Monster section of Chapter 9, the DMG notes "Vulnerabilities don’t significantly affect a monster’s challenge rating, unless a monster has vulnerabilities to multiple damage types that are prevalent [...]" — and in my experience with customized monsters, when players know and are prepared for the vulnerability, that's exactly the noted "unless". So, in this case, the change would alter the effective CR, unless you do something to compensate.



One easy way to leave the appearance of fire vulnerability but keep the CR is to raise the monsters' actual hit points. Once your players realize that fire is the key, you can be sure they'll use fire whenever they can, which means the effective hit points are lower than the actual ones (as described in the DMG in "step 9" of Creating a Monster Stat Block). Exactly how much to adjust by is a judgment call. If the party is only sprinkling some fire into their attacks, going from, say, 22 to 33 might be right. If they've figured out some way to always attack with fire, go ahead and just double to 44. (This is still within the range of hit points for a CR ¼ creature.) If you want them to also be directly vulnerable to radiant damage, take that into account, of course.



Zombies' hit points are already on the low end for their CR, because Undead Fortitude keeps them up and lurching. (This isn't just presumption; from the Monster Features table, this is the equivalent of additional "effective hit points".) So, another approach would be to beef up that feature — perhaps make the save DC just "damage taken" rather than "5 + damage taken". But this is a less predictable than the raw HP approach, so I don't suggest it without some playtesting and tweaking. If you also want this feature to also be shut down by fire damage, that'd be a significant additional weakening — I'd be inclined to just leave it as it is. (As an aside, there should be an in-game way for the players to learn about this bit of non-obvious lore — it takes holy fire to really make a difference.)







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited Mar 18 at 18:53

























answered Mar 18 at 15:50









mattdmmattdm

17.1k878128




17.1k878128











  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk
    Mar 18 at 18:21
















  • $begingroup$
    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    $endgroup$
    – mxyzplk
    Mar 18 at 18:21















$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
Mar 18 at 18:21




$begingroup$
Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
$endgroup$
– mxyzplk
Mar 18 at 18:21













9












$begingroup$

You're overthinking it.



Zombies are goopy flesh, so there's no thematic reason for them to have a vulnerability to fire. They already have a radiant "vulnerability" (little 'v') baked into their Undead Fortitude ability.



If your issue is what to do with your players moving forward you can just tell them "guys I misread/misremembered and zombies aren't Vulnerable to fire". They should be understanding about it. That doesn't detract from the efficacy of their plan before. Fire still hurts and fire traps will still cause most things to have a bad day.



Vulnerability = weaker zombies



If you give them fire Vulnerability, it's going to make zombies less of a challenge. Period. I don't think it's a whole step from CR 1/4 down to CR 1/8 (see below)*, but fire damage is pretty easy to come by and your mileage may vary.




*I don't claim to be great at CR calculation, but a vulnerability does not denote an entire defensive CR step-down. Even if it did, it would only incur a total CR change of a half-step.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think that is an improvement.
    $endgroup$
    – Bloodcinder
    2 days ago















9












$begingroup$

You're overthinking it.



Zombies are goopy flesh, so there's no thematic reason for them to have a vulnerability to fire. They already have a radiant "vulnerability" (little 'v') baked into their Undead Fortitude ability.



If your issue is what to do with your players moving forward you can just tell them "guys I misread/misremembered and zombies aren't Vulnerable to fire". They should be understanding about it. That doesn't detract from the efficacy of their plan before. Fire still hurts and fire traps will still cause most things to have a bad day.



Vulnerability = weaker zombies



If you give them fire Vulnerability, it's going to make zombies less of a challenge. Period. I don't think it's a whole step from CR 1/4 down to CR 1/8 (see below)*, but fire damage is pretty easy to come by and your mileage may vary.




*I don't claim to be great at CR calculation, but a vulnerability does not denote an entire defensive CR step-down. Even if it did, it would only incur a total CR change of a half-step.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    I think that is an improvement.
    $endgroup$
    – Bloodcinder
    2 days ago













9












9








9





$begingroup$

You're overthinking it.



Zombies are goopy flesh, so there's no thematic reason for them to have a vulnerability to fire. They already have a radiant "vulnerability" (little 'v') baked into their Undead Fortitude ability.



If your issue is what to do with your players moving forward you can just tell them "guys I misread/misremembered and zombies aren't Vulnerable to fire". They should be understanding about it. That doesn't detract from the efficacy of their plan before. Fire still hurts and fire traps will still cause most things to have a bad day.



Vulnerability = weaker zombies



If you give them fire Vulnerability, it's going to make zombies less of a challenge. Period. I don't think it's a whole step from CR 1/4 down to CR 1/8 (see below)*, but fire damage is pretty easy to come by and your mileage may vary.




*I don't claim to be great at CR calculation, but a vulnerability does not denote an entire defensive CR step-down. Even if it did, it would only incur a total CR change of a half-step.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$



You're overthinking it.



Zombies are goopy flesh, so there's no thematic reason for them to have a vulnerability to fire. They already have a radiant "vulnerability" (little 'v') baked into their Undead Fortitude ability.



If your issue is what to do with your players moving forward you can just tell them "guys I misread/misremembered and zombies aren't Vulnerable to fire". They should be understanding about it. That doesn't detract from the efficacy of their plan before. Fire still hurts and fire traps will still cause most things to have a bad day.



Vulnerability = weaker zombies



If you give them fire Vulnerability, it's going to make zombies less of a challenge. Period. I don't think it's a whole step from CR 1/4 down to CR 1/8 (see below)*, but fire damage is pretty easy to come by and your mileage may vary.




*I don't claim to be great at CR calculation, but a vulnerability does not denote an entire defensive CR step-down. Even if it did, it would only incur a total CR change of a half-step.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 days ago

























answered Mar 18 at 15:15









goodguy5goodguy5

9,27223476




9,27223476











  • $begingroup$
    I think that is an improvement.
    $endgroup$
    – Bloodcinder
    2 days ago
















  • $begingroup$
    I think that is an improvement.
    $endgroup$
    – Bloodcinder
    2 days ago















$begingroup$
I think that is an improvement.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 days ago




$begingroup$
I think that is an improvement.
$endgroup$
– Bloodcinder
2 days ago










Sean Scott is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.









draft saved

draft discarded


















Sean Scott is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.












Sean Scott is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.











Sean Scott is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.














Thanks for contributing an answer to Role-playing Games Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid


  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.

Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2frpg.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f143375%2fhow-to-balance-a-monster-modification-zombie%23new-answer', 'question_page');

);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Færeyskur hestur Heimild | Tengill | Tilvísanir | LeiðsagnarvalRossið - síða um færeyska hrossið á færeyskuGott ár hjá færeyska hestinum

He _____ here since 1970 . Answer needed [closed]What does “since he was so high” mean?Meaning of “catch birds for”?How do I ensure “since” takes the meaning I want?“Who cares here” meaningWhat does “right round toward” mean?the time tense (had now been detected)What does the phrase “ring around the roses” mean here?Correct usage of “visited upon”Meaning of “foiled rail sabotage bid”It was the third time I had gone to Rome or It is the third time I had been to Rome

Slayer Innehåll Historia | Stil, komposition och lyrik | Bandets betydelse och framgångar | Sidoprojekt och samarbeten | Kontroverser | Medlemmar | Utmärkelser och nomineringar | Turnéer och festivaler | Diskografi | Referenser | Externa länkar | Navigeringsmenywww.slayer.net”Metal Massacre vol. 1””Metal Massacre vol. 3””Metal Massacre Volume III””Show No Mercy””Haunting the Chapel””Live Undead””Hell Awaits””Reign in Blood””Reign in Blood””Gold & Platinum – Reign in Blood””Golden Gods Awards Winners”originalet”Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Looks Back On 37-Year Career In New Video Series: Part Two””South of Heaven””Gold & Platinum – South of Heaven””Seasons in the Abyss””Gold & Platinum - Seasons in the Abyss””Divine Intervention””Divine Intervention - Release group by Slayer””Gold & Platinum - Divine Intervention””Live Intrusion””Undisputed Attitude””Abolish Government/Superficial Love””Release “Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer” by Various Artists””Diabolus in Musica””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””God Hates Us All””Systematic - Relationships””War at the Warfield””Gold & Platinum - War at the Warfield””Soundtrack to the Apocalypse””Gold & Platinum - Still Reigning””Metallica, Slayer, Iron Mauden Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Eternal Pyre””Eternal Pyre - Slayer release group””Eternal Pyre””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Bullet-For My Valentine booed at Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Unholy Aliance””The End Of Slayer?””Slayer: We Could Thrash Out Two More Albums If We're Fast Enough...””'The Unholy Alliance: Chapter III' UK Dates Added”originalet”Megadeth And Slayer To Co-Headline 'Canadian Carnage' Trek”originalet”World Painted Blood””Release “World Painted Blood” by Slayer””Metallica Heading To Cinemas””Slayer, Megadeth To Join Forces For 'European Carnage' Tour - Dec. 18, 2010”originalet”Slayer's Hanneman Contracts Acute Infection; Band To Bring In Guest Guitarist””Cannibal Corpse's Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer's Guest Guitarist”originalet”Slayer’s Jeff Hanneman Dead at 49””Dave Lombardo Says He Made Only $67,000 In 2011 While Touring With Slayer””Slayer: We Do Not Agree With Dave Lombardo's Substance Or Timeline Of Events””Slayer Welcomes Drummer Paul Bostaph Back To The Fold””Slayer Hope to Unveil Never-Before-Heard Jeff Hanneman Material on Next Album””Slayer Debut New Song 'Implode' During Surprise Golden Gods Appearance””Release group Repentless by Slayer””Repentless - Slayer - Credits””Slayer””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer - to release comic book "Repentless #1"””Slayer To Release 'Repentless' 6.66" Vinyl Box Set””BREAKING NEWS: Slayer Announce Farewell Tour””Slayer Recruit Lamb of God, Anthrax, Behemoth + Testament for Final Tour””Slayer lägger ner efter 37 år””Slayer Announces Second North American Leg Of 'Final' Tour””Final World Tour””Slayer Announces Final European Tour With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Tour Europe With Lamb of God, Anthrax And Obituary””Slayer To Play 'Last French Show Ever' At Next Year's Hellfst””Slayer's Final World Tour Will Extend Into 2019””Death Angel's Rob Cavestany On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour: 'Some Of Us Could See This Coming'””Testament Has No Plans To Retire Anytime Soon, Says Chuck Billy””Anthrax's Scott Ian On Slayer's 'Farewell' Tour Plans: 'I Was Surprised And I Wasn't Surprised'””Slayer””Slayer's Morbid Schlock””Review/Rock; For Slayer, the Mania Is the Message””Slayer - Biography””Slayer - Reign In Blood”originalet”Dave Lombardo””An exclusive oral history of Slayer”originalet”Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman”originalet”Thinking Out Loud: Slayer's Kerry King on hair metal, Satan and being polite””Slayer Lyrics””Slayer - Biography””Most influential artists for extreme metal music””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dies aged 49””Slatanic Slaughter: A Tribute to Slayer””Gateway to Hell: A Tribute to Slayer””Covered In Blood””Slayer: The Origins of Thrash in San Francisco, CA.””Why They Rule - #6 Slayer”originalet”Guitar World's 100 Greatest Heavy Metal Guitarists Of All Time”originalet”The fans have spoken: Slayer comes out on top in readers' polls”originalet”Tribute to Jeff Hanneman (1964-2013)””Lamb Of God Frontman: We Sound Like A Slayer Rip-Off””BEHEMOTH Frontman Pays Tribute To SLAYER's JEFF HANNEMAN””Slayer, Hatebreed Doing Double Duty On This Year's Ozzfest””System of a Down””Lacuna Coil’s Andrea Ferro Talks Influences, Skateboarding, Band Origins + More””Slayer - Reign in Blood””Into The Lungs of Hell””Slayer rules - en utställning om fans””Slayer and Their Fans Slashed Through a No-Holds-Barred Night at Gas Monkey””Home””Slayer””Gold & Platinum - The Big 4 Live from Sofia, Bulgaria””Exclusive! Interview With Slayer Guitarist Kerry King””2008-02-23: Wiltern, Los Angeles, CA, USA””Slayer's Kerry King To Perform With Megadeth Tonight! - Oct. 21, 2010”originalet”Dave Lombardo - Biography”Slayer Case DismissedArkiveradUltimate Classic Rock: Slayer guitarist Jeff Hanneman dead at 49.”Slayer: "We could never do any thing like Some Kind Of Monster..."””Cannibal Corpse'S Pat O'Brien Will Step In As Slayer'S Guest Guitarist | The Official Slayer Site”originalet”Slayer Wins 'Best Metal' Grammy Award””Slayer Guitarist Jeff Hanneman Dies””Kerrang! Awards 2006 Blog: Kerrang! Hall Of Fame””Kerrang! Awards 2013: Kerrang! Legend”originalet”Metallica, Slayer, Iron Maien Among Winners At Metal Hammer Awards””Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Bullet For My Valentine Booed At Metal Hammer Golden Gods Awards””Metal Storm Awards 2006””Metal Storm Awards 2015””Slayer's Concert History””Slayer - Relationships””Slayer - Releases”Slayers officiella webbplatsSlayer på MusicBrainzOfficiell webbplatsSlayerSlayerr1373445760000 0001 1540 47353068615-5086262726cb13906545x(data)6033143kn20030215029