Was Spock the First Vulcan in Starfleet?
The idea that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet seems to be a bit of common cultural knowledge with little or no foundation.
The StarTrek.com biography states;
Because the young Vulcan chose to join Starfleet, he and Sarek opened an 18-year rift over Sarek's hope his son would attend the Vulcan Science Academy. Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike as a lieutenant, and later for James T. Kirk.
But the presence of Admiral Patar in Discovery S02:E09 strongly suggests otherwise. However it is possible that more senior Vulcans transitioned from another service (such as the Vulcan Science Academy) after Spock joined.
T'Pol is another common problem with this, however my understanding at the moment is that Enterprise NX-01 is an Earth Starfleet, not a Federation Starfleet vessel and as such T'Pol, no matter what her status on Enterprise, would never have been a member of "Starfleet", as the organisation in question does not exist until after the end of the series Enterprise.
Is there any canonical data to confirm or categorically disprove the status of Spock as the first Vulcan in (Federation) Starfleet?
star-trek vulcan spock starfleet-command
|
show 12 more comments
The idea that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet seems to be a bit of common cultural knowledge with little or no foundation.
The StarTrek.com biography states;
Because the young Vulcan chose to join Starfleet, he and Sarek opened an 18-year rift over Sarek's hope his son would attend the Vulcan Science Academy. Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike as a lieutenant, and later for James T. Kirk.
But the presence of Admiral Patar in Discovery S02:E09 strongly suggests otherwise. However it is possible that more senior Vulcans transitioned from another service (such as the Vulcan Science Academy) after Spock joined.
T'Pol is another common problem with this, however my understanding at the moment is that Enterprise NX-01 is an Earth Starfleet, not a Federation Starfleet vessel and as such T'Pol, no matter what her status on Enterprise, would never have been a member of "Starfleet", as the organisation in question does not exist until after the end of the series Enterprise.
Is there any canonical data to confirm or categorically disprove the status of Spock as the first Vulcan in (Federation) Starfleet?
star-trek vulcan spock starfleet-command
1
@DarthLocke: While she certainly was the first Vulkan that accompanied a human long-term mission, it is crystal-clear that she does so because the Vulkan High-Command appoints her to that mission. She is not part of Star Fleet, only incorporated into the ship's command structure.
– Philip Klöcking
15 hours ago
1
@DarthLocke I've added a paragraph about T'Pol. I didn't include this originally as I didn't want to go overboard with question details.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
1
I also thought I saw another Vulcan or half Vulcan with Cornwall too at some point (not Patar), but I could be mistaken...
– Darth Locke
15 hours ago
1
@Valorum without being a Federation Lawyer I can't say for certain, but the passage quoted in the linked answer says "Shall initially be compromised of contingents assigned to it by members..." "Drawing upon the armament of any member" Which could be interpreted as having personnel and starships loaned to Star Fleet, without them actually joining the organisation, with the intention of them being returned when Star Fleet starts producing its own officers/enlisted etc.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
2
Spock is a half-Vulcan, not Vulcan. So, your question is incorrect.
– S S
10 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
The idea that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet seems to be a bit of common cultural knowledge with little or no foundation.
The StarTrek.com biography states;
Because the young Vulcan chose to join Starfleet, he and Sarek opened an 18-year rift over Sarek's hope his son would attend the Vulcan Science Academy. Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike as a lieutenant, and later for James T. Kirk.
But the presence of Admiral Patar in Discovery S02:E09 strongly suggests otherwise. However it is possible that more senior Vulcans transitioned from another service (such as the Vulcan Science Academy) after Spock joined.
T'Pol is another common problem with this, however my understanding at the moment is that Enterprise NX-01 is an Earth Starfleet, not a Federation Starfleet vessel and as such T'Pol, no matter what her status on Enterprise, would never have been a member of "Starfleet", as the organisation in question does not exist until after the end of the series Enterprise.
Is there any canonical data to confirm or categorically disprove the status of Spock as the first Vulcan in (Federation) Starfleet?
star-trek vulcan spock starfleet-command
The idea that Spock was the first Vulcan in Starfleet seems to be a bit of common cultural knowledge with little or no foundation.
The StarTrek.com biography states;
Because the young Vulcan chose to join Starfleet, he and Sarek opened an 18-year rift over Sarek's hope his son would attend the Vulcan Science Academy. Spock was the first Vulcan to enlist in the Federation Starfleet, serving aboard the U.S.S. Enterprise under Captain Christopher Pike as a lieutenant, and later for James T. Kirk.
But the presence of Admiral Patar in Discovery S02:E09 strongly suggests otherwise. However it is possible that more senior Vulcans transitioned from another service (such as the Vulcan Science Academy) after Spock joined.
T'Pol is another common problem with this, however my understanding at the moment is that Enterprise NX-01 is an Earth Starfleet, not a Federation Starfleet vessel and as such T'Pol, no matter what her status on Enterprise, would never have been a member of "Starfleet", as the organisation in question does not exist until after the end of the series Enterprise.
Is there any canonical data to confirm or categorically disprove the status of Spock as the first Vulcan in (Federation) Starfleet?
star-trek vulcan spock starfleet-command
star-trek vulcan spock starfleet-command
edited 12 hours ago
Machavity
25k576142
25k576142
asked 15 hours ago
JontiaJontia
5,32332145
5,32332145
1
@DarthLocke: While she certainly was the first Vulkan that accompanied a human long-term mission, it is crystal-clear that she does so because the Vulkan High-Command appoints her to that mission. She is not part of Star Fleet, only incorporated into the ship's command structure.
– Philip Klöcking
15 hours ago
1
@DarthLocke I've added a paragraph about T'Pol. I didn't include this originally as I didn't want to go overboard with question details.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
1
I also thought I saw another Vulcan or half Vulcan with Cornwall too at some point (not Patar), but I could be mistaken...
– Darth Locke
15 hours ago
1
@Valorum without being a Federation Lawyer I can't say for certain, but the passage quoted in the linked answer says "Shall initially be compromised of contingents assigned to it by members..." "Drawing upon the armament of any member" Which could be interpreted as having personnel and starships loaned to Star Fleet, without them actually joining the organisation, with the intention of them being returned when Star Fleet starts producing its own officers/enlisted etc.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
2
Spock is a half-Vulcan, not Vulcan. So, your question is incorrect.
– S S
10 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
1
@DarthLocke: While she certainly was the first Vulkan that accompanied a human long-term mission, it is crystal-clear that she does so because the Vulkan High-Command appoints her to that mission. She is not part of Star Fleet, only incorporated into the ship's command structure.
– Philip Klöcking
15 hours ago
1
@DarthLocke I've added a paragraph about T'Pol. I didn't include this originally as I didn't want to go overboard with question details.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
1
I also thought I saw another Vulcan or half Vulcan with Cornwall too at some point (not Patar), but I could be mistaken...
– Darth Locke
15 hours ago
1
@Valorum without being a Federation Lawyer I can't say for certain, but the passage quoted in the linked answer says "Shall initially be compromised of contingents assigned to it by members..." "Drawing upon the armament of any member" Which could be interpreted as having personnel and starships loaned to Star Fleet, without them actually joining the organisation, with the intention of them being returned when Star Fleet starts producing its own officers/enlisted etc.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
2
Spock is a half-Vulcan, not Vulcan. So, your question is incorrect.
– S S
10 hours ago
1
1
@DarthLocke: While she certainly was the first Vulkan that accompanied a human long-term mission, it is crystal-clear that she does so because the Vulkan High-Command appoints her to that mission. She is not part of Star Fleet, only incorporated into the ship's command structure.
– Philip Klöcking
15 hours ago
@DarthLocke: While she certainly was the first Vulkan that accompanied a human long-term mission, it is crystal-clear that she does so because the Vulkan High-Command appoints her to that mission. She is not part of Star Fleet, only incorporated into the ship's command structure.
– Philip Klöcking
15 hours ago
1
1
@DarthLocke I've added a paragraph about T'Pol. I didn't include this originally as I didn't want to go overboard with question details.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@DarthLocke I've added a paragraph about T'Pol. I didn't include this originally as I didn't want to go overboard with question details.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
1
1
I also thought I saw another Vulcan or half Vulcan with Cornwall too at some point (not Patar), but I could be mistaken...
– Darth Locke
15 hours ago
I also thought I saw another Vulcan or half Vulcan with Cornwall too at some point (not Patar), but I could be mistaken...
– Darth Locke
15 hours ago
1
1
@Valorum without being a Federation Lawyer I can't say for certain, but the passage quoted in the linked answer says "Shall initially be compromised of contingents assigned to it by members..." "Drawing upon the armament of any member" Which could be interpreted as having personnel and starships loaned to Star Fleet, without them actually joining the organisation, with the intention of them being returned when Star Fleet starts producing its own officers/enlisted etc.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
@Valorum without being a Federation Lawyer I can't say for certain, but the passage quoted in the linked answer says "Shall initially be compromised of contingents assigned to it by members..." "Drawing upon the armament of any member" Which could be interpreted as having personnel and starships loaned to Star Fleet, without them actually joining the organisation, with the intention of them being returned when Star Fleet starts producing its own officers/enlisted etc.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
2
2
Spock is a half-Vulcan, not Vulcan. So, your question is incorrect.
– S S
10 hours ago
Spock is a half-Vulcan, not Vulcan. So, your question is incorrect.
– S S
10 hours ago
|
show 12 more comments
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
He is not the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Star Trek Enterprise by itself puts a nail in the coffin: near the end of the third season, when the ship returns to Earth after having stopped the Xindi attack, T'Pol is formally inducted into Starfleet and given the rank of Commander.
In TOS, there was also a clear indication: in "The Immunity Syndrome", USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, so unless they transferred en masse from the Vulcan Expeditionary Group (which seems unlikely, given the apparently conservative nature of the organization as shown in Star Trek Discovery), that would imply the senior officers were, at least, Spock's peers. As good as Spock was, it's unlikely another Vulcan would make captain before him if he had a head start.
Star Trek Discovery simply adds to it in that they've shown Vulcan admirals in Starfleet, while Spock is still a lieutenant in his 20s.
NOTE:
Given the question change about "Earth Starfleet" or "Federation Starfleet", there is no difference. This is clearly demonstrated in Season 1 of Star Trek Discovery when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, with no qualifications as to what organization he's talking about. Archer was listed, clearly indicating that as far as Starfleet was concerned there was no distinction.
3
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
4
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
add a comment |
I hazard that he was not. In the Original Series episode "Immunity Syndrome", we have the USS Intrepid. We are told the Starfleet vessel was crewed exclusively by Vulcans. To have 430-ish Vulcans, from the Captain down to the Assistant Dishwasher, would suggest several of his people were ahead of Spock in processing through the Academy to serve.
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
add a comment |
Although this just may prove to be another potential contradiction, since it is Star Trek Discovery that introduces him, there is Admiral Terral.
Terral was a Vulcan who served as an admiral in Starfleet during the
Federation-Klingon War of 2256-57.
In December of 2256, he attended a strategy briefing with Captain
Gabriel Lorca, Admiral Katrina Cornwell, and two other admirals. (DIS:
"Choose Your Pain")
It seems likely given that he is an admiral that he would have had to have gone through Star Fleet Academy and beyond to require such a rank. However, there is no background information on this character at this time to prove it as certain.
add a comment |
I don't think so.
Memory Alpha states that T'Pol joined Starfleet some time around 2154 as a commander on Captain Archer's Enterprise (the NX-01), though the wording is a bit ambiguous.
Following a Xindi attack on Earth on April 24, 2153, Enterprise was
recalled home and underwent a major refit in preparation for a mission
into the Delphic Expanse. Because this mission was seen by the Vulcan
High Command as being an Earth matter, Ambassador Soval ordered T'Pol
to return to Vulcan, to be reassigned to the Ministry of Information.
It was expected that, after a brief time at the Ministry, she would be
allowed to return to Earth to continue her diplomatic duties. However,
T'Pol resisted. As Enterprise set course for Vulcan to deliver T'Pol
home and proceed to the Expanse, she abruptly resigned her commission
and chose to remain aboard. (ENT: "The Expanse") During her tenure as
technically a civilian amongst the crew, T'Pol wore a variety of
bodysuits in a variety of different color schemes. These included
blue/grey, white, and muted pastel. T'Pol later continued to wear a
collection of bodysuits adorned with rank insignia, assignment patch
and so on when she joined Starfleet.
(Emphasis mine.)
Though Archer's starfleet is not the United Federation's Starfleet, Archer was present when the Federation was founded, and assuming Earth's Starfleet was entirely absorbed into the UFP's Starfleet, T'Pol was also a member of it.
1
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
1
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
add a comment |
The VERY first Vulcan's were the ones that were in first-contact. First contract after ZC's first warp drive test... they detected it and then came down to Earth to see him...
I'd believe they were the first. Riker even stated "Initially ignored as being too primative, however, the world suddenly gets bigger after the test."
New contributor
2
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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5 Answers
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5 Answers
5
active
oldest
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active
oldest
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He is not the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Star Trek Enterprise by itself puts a nail in the coffin: near the end of the third season, when the ship returns to Earth after having stopped the Xindi attack, T'Pol is formally inducted into Starfleet and given the rank of Commander.
In TOS, there was also a clear indication: in "The Immunity Syndrome", USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, so unless they transferred en masse from the Vulcan Expeditionary Group (which seems unlikely, given the apparently conservative nature of the organization as shown in Star Trek Discovery), that would imply the senior officers were, at least, Spock's peers. As good as Spock was, it's unlikely another Vulcan would make captain before him if he had a head start.
Star Trek Discovery simply adds to it in that they've shown Vulcan admirals in Starfleet, while Spock is still a lieutenant in his 20s.
NOTE:
Given the question change about "Earth Starfleet" or "Federation Starfleet", there is no difference. This is clearly demonstrated in Season 1 of Star Trek Discovery when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, with no qualifications as to what organization he's talking about. Archer was listed, clearly indicating that as far as Starfleet was concerned there was no distinction.
3
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
4
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
add a comment |
He is not the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Star Trek Enterprise by itself puts a nail in the coffin: near the end of the third season, when the ship returns to Earth after having stopped the Xindi attack, T'Pol is formally inducted into Starfleet and given the rank of Commander.
In TOS, there was also a clear indication: in "The Immunity Syndrome", USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, so unless they transferred en masse from the Vulcan Expeditionary Group (which seems unlikely, given the apparently conservative nature of the organization as shown in Star Trek Discovery), that would imply the senior officers were, at least, Spock's peers. As good as Spock was, it's unlikely another Vulcan would make captain before him if he had a head start.
Star Trek Discovery simply adds to it in that they've shown Vulcan admirals in Starfleet, while Spock is still a lieutenant in his 20s.
NOTE:
Given the question change about "Earth Starfleet" or "Federation Starfleet", there is no difference. This is clearly demonstrated in Season 1 of Star Trek Discovery when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, with no qualifications as to what organization he's talking about. Archer was listed, clearly indicating that as far as Starfleet was concerned there was no distinction.
3
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
4
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
add a comment |
He is not the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Star Trek Enterprise by itself puts a nail in the coffin: near the end of the third season, when the ship returns to Earth after having stopped the Xindi attack, T'Pol is formally inducted into Starfleet and given the rank of Commander.
In TOS, there was also a clear indication: in "The Immunity Syndrome", USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, so unless they transferred en masse from the Vulcan Expeditionary Group (which seems unlikely, given the apparently conservative nature of the organization as shown in Star Trek Discovery), that would imply the senior officers were, at least, Spock's peers. As good as Spock was, it's unlikely another Vulcan would make captain before him if he had a head start.
Star Trek Discovery simply adds to it in that they've shown Vulcan admirals in Starfleet, while Spock is still a lieutenant in his 20s.
NOTE:
Given the question change about "Earth Starfleet" or "Federation Starfleet", there is no difference. This is clearly demonstrated in Season 1 of Star Trek Discovery when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, with no qualifications as to what organization he's talking about. Archer was listed, clearly indicating that as far as Starfleet was concerned there was no distinction.
He is not the first Vulcan in Starfleet.
Star Trek Enterprise by itself puts a nail in the coffin: near the end of the third season, when the ship returns to Earth after having stopped the Xindi attack, T'Pol is formally inducted into Starfleet and given the rank of Commander.
In TOS, there was also a clear indication: in "The Immunity Syndrome", USS Intrepid is crewed entirely by Vulcans, so unless they transferred en masse from the Vulcan Expeditionary Group (which seems unlikely, given the apparently conservative nature of the organization as shown in Star Trek Discovery), that would imply the senior officers were, at least, Spock's peers. As good as Spock was, it's unlikely another Vulcan would make captain before him if he had a head start.
Star Trek Discovery simply adds to it in that they've shown Vulcan admirals in Starfleet, while Spock is still a lieutenant in his 20s.
NOTE:
Given the question change about "Earth Starfleet" or "Federation Starfleet", there is no difference. This is clearly demonstrated in Season 1 of Star Trek Discovery when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, with no qualifications as to what organization he's talking about. Archer was listed, clearly indicating that as far as Starfleet was concerned there was no distinction.
edited 15 hours ago
answered 15 hours ago
Keith MorrisonKeith Morrison
8,91211634
8,91211634
3
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
4
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
add a comment |
3
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
4
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
3
3
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
Nice reference that equates or at least links the two Star Fleet terminologies.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
4
4
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
Hadn’t Spock served in Starfleet longer than James T. Kirk? Was Spock’s career goal to make Captain as soon as possible?
– Davislor
13 hours ago
add a comment |
I hazard that he was not. In the Original Series episode "Immunity Syndrome", we have the USS Intrepid. We are told the Starfleet vessel was crewed exclusively by Vulcans. To have 430-ish Vulcans, from the Captain down to the Assistant Dishwasher, would suggest several of his people were ahead of Spock in processing through the Academy to serve.
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
add a comment |
I hazard that he was not. In the Original Series episode "Immunity Syndrome", we have the USS Intrepid. We are told the Starfleet vessel was crewed exclusively by Vulcans. To have 430-ish Vulcans, from the Captain down to the Assistant Dishwasher, would suggest several of his people were ahead of Spock in processing through the Academy to serve.
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
add a comment |
I hazard that he was not. In the Original Series episode "Immunity Syndrome", we have the USS Intrepid. We are told the Starfleet vessel was crewed exclusively by Vulcans. To have 430-ish Vulcans, from the Captain down to the Assistant Dishwasher, would suggest several of his people were ahead of Spock in processing through the Academy to serve.
I hazard that he was not. In the Original Series episode "Immunity Syndrome", we have the USS Intrepid. We are told the Starfleet vessel was crewed exclusively by Vulcans. To have 430-ish Vulcans, from the Captain down to the Assistant Dishwasher, would suggest several of his people were ahead of Spock in processing through the Academy to serve.
edited 9 hours ago
V2Blast
15619
15619
answered 15 hours ago
BlazeBlaze
1,265414
1,265414
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
add a comment |
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
I don’t have a copy at hand, but I seem to recall the novelization by James Blish reconciling this. If memory serves, the explanation was that Spock’s example inspired many other Vulcans to join Starfleet. The planetary government then asked that there be a starship with an entirely-Vulcan crew. And the USS Intrepid had another name in their language.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
If so, this would imply that the captain of the USS Intrepid joined Starfleet after Spock—but then, so did James T. Kirk. It also would mean Starfleet was compelled to promote some Vulcan to command its all-Vulcan starship. Presumably one with relevant experience, such as in the Vulcan expeditionary service.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
It’s also within the realm of possibility, albeit unlikely, that the crew of the USS Intrepid were all inexperienced. In its one canonical appearance, they all died.
– Davislor
13 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
@Davislor Inexperience seems improbable. In the episode, Kirk and Spock discuss how the "space amoeba" and its protective field might have been too illogical and weird for the Vulcan crew to deal with.
– Blaze
12 hours ago
add a comment |
Although this just may prove to be another potential contradiction, since it is Star Trek Discovery that introduces him, there is Admiral Terral.
Terral was a Vulcan who served as an admiral in Starfleet during the
Federation-Klingon War of 2256-57.
In December of 2256, he attended a strategy briefing with Captain
Gabriel Lorca, Admiral Katrina Cornwell, and two other admirals. (DIS:
"Choose Your Pain")
It seems likely given that he is an admiral that he would have had to have gone through Star Fleet Academy and beyond to require such a rank. However, there is no background information on this character at this time to prove it as certain.
add a comment |
Although this just may prove to be another potential contradiction, since it is Star Trek Discovery that introduces him, there is Admiral Terral.
Terral was a Vulcan who served as an admiral in Starfleet during the
Federation-Klingon War of 2256-57.
In December of 2256, he attended a strategy briefing with Captain
Gabriel Lorca, Admiral Katrina Cornwell, and two other admirals. (DIS:
"Choose Your Pain")
It seems likely given that he is an admiral that he would have had to have gone through Star Fleet Academy and beyond to require such a rank. However, there is no background information on this character at this time to prove it as certain.
add a comment |
Although this just may prove to be another potential contradiction, since it is Star Trek Discovery that introduces him, there is Admiral Terral.
Terral was a Vulcan who served as an admiral in Starfleet during the
Federation-Klingon War of 2256-57.
In December of 2256, he attended a strategy briefing with Captain
Gabriel Lorca, Admiral Katrina Cornwell, and two other admirals. (DIS:
"Choose Your Pain")
It seems likely given that he is an admiral that he would have had to have gone through Star Fleet Academy and beyond to require such a rank. However, there is no background information on this character at this time to prove it as certain.
Although this just may prove to be another potential contradiction, since it is Star Trek Discovery that introduces him, there is Admiral Terral.
Terral was a Vulcan who served as an admiral in Starfleet during the
Federation-Klingon War of 2256-57.
In December of 2256, he attended a strategy briefing with Captain
Gabriel Lorca, Admiral Katrina Cornwell, and two other admirals. (DIS:
"Choose Your Pain")
It seems likely given that he is an admiral that he would have had to have gone through Star Fleet Academy and beyond to require such a rank. However, there is no background information on this character at this time to prove it as certain.
edited 13 hours ago
Lightness Races in Orbit
9,84533866
9,84533866
answered 15 hours ago
Darth LockeDarth Locke
1,037420
1,037420
add a comment |
add a comment |
I don't think so.
Memory Alpha states that T'Pol joined Starfleet some time around 2154 as a commander on Captain Archer's Enterprise (the NX-01), though the wording is a bit ambiguous.
Following a Xindi attack on Earth on April 24, 2153, Enterprise was
recalled home and underwent a major refit in preparation for a mission
into the Delphic Expanse. Because this mission was seen by the Vulcan
High Command as being an Earth matter, Ambassador Soval ordered T'Pol
to return to Vulcan, to be reassigned to the Ministry of Information.
It was expected that, after a brief time at the Ministry, she would be
allowed to return to Earth to continue her diplomatic duties. However,
T'Pol resisted. As Enterprise set course for Vulcan to deliver T'Pol
home and proceed to the Expanse, she abruptly resigned her commission
and chose to remain aboard. (ENT: "The Expanse") During her tenure as
technically a civilian amongst the crew, T'Pol wore a variety of
bodysuits in a variety of different color schemes. These included
blue/grey, white, and muted pastel. T'Pol later continued to wear a
collection of bodysuits adorned with rank insignia, assignment patch
and so on when she joined Starfleet.
(Emphasis mine.)
Though Archer's starfleet is not the United Federation's Starfleet, Archer was present when the Federation was founded, and assuming Earth's Starfleet was entirely absorbed into the UFP's Starfleet, T'Pol was also a member of it.
1
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
1
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't think so.
Memory Alpha states that T'Pol joined Starfleet some time around 2154 as a commander on Captain Archer's Enterprise (the NX-01), though the wording is a bit ambiguous.
Following a Xindi attack on Earth on April 24, 2153, Enterprise was
recalled home and underwent a major refit in preparation for a mission
into the Delphic Expanse. Because this mission was seen by the Vulcan
High Command as being an Earth matter, Ambassador Soval ordered T'Pol
to return to Vulcan, to be reassigned to the Ministry of Information.
It was expected that, after a brief time at the Ministry, she would be
allowed to return to Earth to continue her diplomatic duties. However,
T'Pol resisted. As Enterprise set course for Vulcan to deliver T'Pol
home and proceed to the Expanse, she abruptly resigned her commission
and chose to remain aboard. (ENT: "The Expanse") During her tenure as
technically a civilian amongst the crew, T'Pol wore a variety of
bodysuits in a variety of different color schemes. These included
blue/grey, white, and muted pastel. T'Pol later continued to wear a
collection of bodysuits adorned with rank insignia, assignment patch
and so on when she joined Starfleet.
(Emphasis mine.)
Though Archer's starfleet is not the United Federation's Starfleet, Archer was present when the Federation was founded, and assuming Earth's Starfleet was entirely absorbed into the UFP's Starfleet, T'Pol was also a member of it.
1
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
1
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
add a comment |
I don't think so.
Memory Alpha states that T'Pol joined Starfleet some time around 2154 as a commander on Captain Archer's Enterprise (the NX-01), though the wording is a bit ambiguous.
Following a Xindi attack on Earth on April 24, 2153, Enterprise was
recalled home and underwent a major refit in preparation for a mission
into the Delphic Expanse. Because this mission was seen by the Vulcan
High Command as being an Earth matter, Ambassador Soval ordered T'Pol
to return to Vulcan, to be reassigned to the Ministry of Information.
It was expected that, after a brief time at the Ministry, she would be
allowed to return to Earth to continue her diplomatic duties. However,
T'Pol resisted. As Enterprise set course for Vulcan to deliver T'Pol
home and proceed to the Expanse, she abruptly resigned her commission
and chose to remain aboard. (ENT: "The Expanse") During her tenure as
technically a civilian amongst the crew, T'Pol wore a variety of
bodysuits in a variety of different color schemes. These included
blue/grey, white, and muted pastel. T'Pol later continued to wear a
collection of bodysuits adorned with rank insignia, assignment patch
and so on when she joined Starfleet.
(Emphasis mine.)
Though Archer's starfleet is not the United Federation's Starfleet, Archer was present when the Federation was founded, and assuming Earth's Starfleet was entirely absorbed into the UFP's Starfleet, T'Pol was also a member of it.
I don't think so.
Memory Alpha states that T'Pol joined Starfleet some time around 2154 as a commander on Captain Archer's Enterprise (the NX-01), though the wording is a bit ambiguous.
Following a Xindi attack on Earth on April 24, 2153, Enterprise was
recalled home and underwent a major refit in preparation for a mission
into the Delphic Expanse. Because this mission was seen by the Vulcan
High Command as being an Earth matter, Ambassador Soval ordered T'Pol
to return to Vulcan, to be reassigned to the Ministry of Information.
It was expected that, after a brief time at the Ministry, she would be
allowed to return to Earth to continue her diplomatic duties. However,
T'Pol resisted. As Enterprise set course for Vulcan to deliver T'Pol
home and proceed to the Expanse, she abruptly resigned her commission
and chose to remain aboard. (ENT: "The Expanse") During her tenure as
technically a civilian amongst the crew, T'Pol wore a variety of
bodysuits in a variety of different color schemes. These included
blue/grey, white, and muted pastel. T'Pol later continued to wear a
collection of bodysuits adorned with rank insignia, assignment patch
and so on when she joined Starfleet.
(Emphasis mine.)
Though Archer's starfleet is not the United Federation's Starfleet, Archer was present when the Federation was founded, and assuming Earth's Starfleet was entirely absorbed into the UFP's Starfleet, T'Pol was also a member of it.
edited 9 hours ago
V2Blast
15619
15619
answered 15 hours ago
steenberghsteenbergh
3,41841432
3,41841432
1
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
1
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
add a comment |
1
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
1
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
1
1
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
So... I've updated the question, but I think the Starfleet that T'Pol joins is not the Federation Starfleet, but Earth Startfleet (nice work using the same name guys!), but I'm ok with this being the right answer if we get some consensus on continuity of organisations.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
@Jontia I don't see the distinction...
– steenbergh
15 hours ago
1
1
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
In season 1 of Discovery, when Saru asks the computer to list the most decorated captains in Starfleet history, Archer is listed. He didn't have to specify a Starfleet because as far as Starfleet is concerned there has been only one.
– Keith Morrison
15 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
@KeithMorrison unless the computer just does a wide search, "Most decorated Navy Captain" in google returns results for US Navy and the Royal Navy on the first page, but they're not the same organisations.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
add a comment |
The VERY first Vulcan's were the ones that were in first-contact. First contract after ZC's first warp drive test... they detected it and then came down to Earth to see him...
I'd believe they were the first. Riker even stated "Initially ignored as being too primative, however, the world suddenly gets bigger after the test."
New contributor
2
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
add a comment |
The VERY first Vulcan's were the ones that were in first-contact. First contract after ZC's first warp drive test... they detected it and then came down to Earth to see him...
I'd believe they were the first. Riker even stated "Initially ignored as being too primative, however, the world suddenly gets bigger after the test."
New contributor
2
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
add a comment |
The VERY first Vulcan's were the ones that were in first-contact. First contract after ZC's first warp drive test... they detected it and then came down to Earth to see him...
I'd believe they were the first. Riker even stated "Initially ignored as being too primative, however, the world suddenly gets bigger after the test."
New contributor
The VERY first Vulcan's were the ones that were in first-contact. First contract after ZC's first warp drive test... they detected it and then came down to Earth to see him...
I'd believe they were the first. Riker even stated "Initially ignored as being too primative, however, the world suddenly gets bigger after the test."
New contributor
New contributor
answered 10 hours ago
Patrick BurdettPatrick Burdett
1
1
New contributor
New contributor
2
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
add a comment |
2
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
2
2
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
Welcome to SciFi.SE! I'm not sure you've understood the question. Who were the first Vulcans to join Starfleet? If you believe that the Vulcans who made contact with Earth were part of Starfleet, could you provide evidence?
– F1Krazy
10 hours ago
add a comment |
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1
@DarthLocke: While she certainly was the first Vulkan that accompanied a human long-term mission, it is crystal-clear that she does so because the Vulkan High-Command appoints her to that mission. She is not part of Star Fleet, only incorporated into the ship's command structure.
– Philip Klöcking
15 hours ago
1
@DarthLocke I've added a paragraph about T'Pol. I didn't include this originally as I didn't want to go overboard with question details.
– Jontia
15 hours ago
1
I also thought I saw another Vulcan or half Vulcan with Cornwall too at some point (not Patar), but I could be mistaken...
– Darth Locke
15 hours ago
1
@Valorum without being a Federation Lawyer I can't say for certain, but the passage quoted in the linked answer says "Shall initially be compromised of contingents assigned to it by members..." "Drawing upon the armament of any member" Which could be interpreted as having personnel and starships loaned to Star Fleet, without them actually joining the organisation, with the intention of them being returned when Star Fleet starts producing its own officers/enlisted etc.
– Jontia
13 hours ago
2
Spock is a half-Vulcan, not Vulcan. So, your question is incorrect.
– S S
10 hours ago