Where does “vice-a-versa” come from? [on hold]
I believe the correct term is "vice versa", but occasionally I hear "vice-a-versa" being said. Is there any explanation for that pronunciation?
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I believe the correct term is "vice versa", but occasionally I hear "vice-a-versa" being said. Is there any explanation for that pronunciation?
latin
New contributor
put on hold as off-topic by TrevorD, Skooba, jimm101, tchrist♦ Mar 19 at 2:43
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Please include the research you’ve done, or consider if your question suits our English Language Learners site better. Questions that can be answered using commonly-available references are off-topic." – TrevorD, Skooba, jimm101, tchrist
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
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Mar 17 at 9:05
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I believe the correct term is "vice versa", but occasionally I hear "vice-a-versa" being said. Is there any explanation for that pronunciation?
latin
New contributor
I believe the correct term is "vice versa", but occasionally I hear "vice-a-versa" being said. Is there any explanation for that pronunciation?
latin
latin
New contributor
New contributor
New contributor
asked Mar 17 at 6:53
VortixDevVortixDev
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New contributor
put on hold as off-topic by TrevorD, Skooba, jimm101, tchrist♦ Mar 19 at 2:43
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Please include the research you’ve done, or consider if your question suits our English Language Learners site better. Questions that can be answered using commonly-available references are off-topic." – TrevorD, Skooba, jimm101, tchrist
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
put on hold as off-topic by TrevorD, Skooba, jimm101, tchrist♦ Mar 19 at 2:43
This question appears to be off-topic. The users who voted to close gave this specific reason:
- "Please include the research you’ve done, or consider if your question suits our English Language Learners site better. Questions that can be answered using commonly-available references are off-topic." – TrevorD, Skooba, jimm101, tchrist
If this question can be reworded to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question.
Welcome, Vortix. A quick search and website reveals all. We prefer questions with actual context and research, so they're fully fleshed out. See How to Ask.
– Lordology
Mar 17 at 9:05
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Welcome, Vortix. A quick search and website reveals all. We prefer questions with actual context and research, so they're fully fleshed out. See How to Ask.
– Lordology
Mar 17 at 9:05
Welcome, Vortix. A quick search and website reveals all. We prefer questions with actual context and research, so they're fully fleshed out. See How to Ask.
– Lordology
Mar 17 at 9:05
Welcome, Vortix. A quick search and website reveals all. We prefer questions with actual context and research, so they're fully fleshed out. See How to Ask.
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3 Answers
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Vice can have a disyllabic pronunciation because of its Latin origins
As vectory said, the pronunciation with four syllables didn't originate as "vice-a-versa", but as "vi-ce versa", with a non-silent e at the end of vice. Latin doesn't have silent e, and the phrase vice versa comes directly from Latin.
In the "traditional" English pronunciation of Latin, final e's in words like this were pronounced with the vowel found at the end of lily or happy. In an old-fashioned "RP" British English accent, this sound is identified as /ɪ/ (the "ih" sound of "kit"); in other accents, it is identified as /i/ (an unstressed version of the "ee" sound of "fleece"). For example, the e at the end of the word simile, which comes from a Latin adjective, is pronounced this way.
For some reason, vice versa developed a variant pronunciation with /ə/. My guess would be that the phrase was treated as a single word, and so the vowel was reduced more than a word-final vowel would be: for comparison, the word-internal "i" in the word happily is often pronounced as /ə/, even though in most accents it is not usual to pronounce happy with /ə/.
Vice also has a monosyllabic pronunciation
Vice versa also has what seems to be a "spelling pronunciation" where vice is pronounced as a single syllable /vaɪs/. This kind of spelling pronunciation (treating "e" at the end of a word as "silent e") exists for a number of other words or terms from Latin, such as rationale, bona fide(s) and Clostridium difficile.
Aside from spelling pronunciation, another factor that might have contributed to the use of a monosyllabic pronunciation of vice in vice versa might be influence from the French pronunciation of a prefix derived from Latin vice. The OED entry on this prefix says "From the 13th cent. onwards a number of these [compounds] appear in Old French, at first usually with the prefix in the form of vis-, vi-, but latterly assimilated as a rule to the Latin original. [...] The older examples in English, having been taken immediately from French, also present the prefix in the reduced forms vis- (vys, viz-) and vi- (vy-), subsequently replaced by vice- (also in early use vize-) except in viscount n." As far as I know, the prefix vice-, as in vice-chairman, is always pronounced as a monosyllable in English.
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
add a comment |
According to Longman's Pronunciation Dictionary and the OLD, the standard pronunciation of vice in vice versa is vais in AE but vaisi or, relevant to your question, vaisə in BE. Most likely, the latter variant can also be heard in other parts of the world.
(Note that English often uses the Schwa sound ə for foreign words ending in "e", even though this is generally not correct. For example, German has another Schwa sound. This distinction is missed even by dictionaries and underlies the long-standing controversy regarding the pronunciation of Porsche.)
add a comment |
The e in vice is not silent in Latin. That sound had been pronounced, then rebracketed (like a nadder ~ an adder), and consequently fit into the common *-a-* pattern.
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Vice can have a disyllabic pronunciation because of its Latin origins
As vectory said, the pronunciation with four syllables didn't originate as "vice-a-versa", but as "vi-ce versa", with a non-silent e at the end of vice. Latin doesn't have silent e, and the phrase vice versa comes directly from Latin.
In the "traditional" English pronunciation of Latin, final e's in words like this were pronounced with the vowel found at the end of lily or happy. In an old-fashioned "RP" British English accent, this sound is identified as /ɪ/ (the "ih" sound of "kit"); in other accents, it is identified as /i/ (an unstressed version of the "ee" sound of "fleece"). For example, the e at the end of the word simile, which comes from a Latin adjective, is pronounced this way.
For some reason, vice versa developed a variant pronunciation with /ə/. My guess would be that the phrase was treated as a single word, and so the vowel was reduced more than a word-final vowel would be: for comparison, the word-internal "i" in the word happily is often pronounced as /ə/, even though in most accents it is not usual to pronounce happy with /ə/.
Vice also has a monosyllabic pronunciation
Vice versa also has what seems to be a "spelling pronunciation" where vice is pronounced as a single syllable /vaɪs/. This kind of spelling pronunciation (treating "e" at the end of a word as "silent e") exists for a number of other words or terms from Latin, such as rationale, bona fide(s) and Clostridium difficile.
Aside from spelling pronunciation, another factor that might have contributed to the use of a monosyllabic pronunciation of vice in vice versa might be influence from the French pronunciation of a prefix derived from Latin vice. The OED entry on this prefix says "From the 13th cent. onwards a number of these [compounds] appear in Old French, at first usually with the prefix in the form of vis-, vi-, but latterly assimilated as a rule to the Latin original. [...] The older examples in English, having been taken immediately from French, also present the prefix in the reduced forms vis- (vys, viz-) and vi- (vy-), subsequently replaced by vice- (also in early use vize-) except in viscount n." As far as I know, the prefix vice-, as in vice-chairman, is always pronounced as a monosyllable in English.
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
add a comment |
Vice can have a disyllabic pronunciation because of its Latin origins
As vectory said, the pronunciation with four syllables didn't originate as "vice-a-versa", but as "vi-ce versa", with a non-silent e at the end of vice. Latin doesn't have silent e, and the phrase vice versa comes directly from Latin.
In the "traditional" English pronunciation of Latin, final e's in words like this were pronounced with the vowel found at the end of lily or happy. In an old-fashioned "RP" British English accent, this sound is identified as /ɪ/ (the "ih" sound of "kit"); in other accents, it is identified as /i/ (an unstressed version of the "ee" sound of "fleece"). For example, the e at the end of the word simile, which comes from a Latin adjective, is pronounced this way.
For some reason, vice versa developed a variant pronunciation with /ə/. My guess would be that the phrase was treated as a single word, and so the vowel was reduced more than a word-final vowel would be: for comparison, the word-internal "i" in the word happily is often pronounced as /ə/, even though in most accents it is not usual to pronounce happy with /ə/.
Vice also has a monosyllabic pronunciation
Vice versa also has what seems to be a "spelling pronunciation" where vice is pronounced as a single syllable /vaɪs/. This kind of spelling pronunciation (treating "e" at the end of a word as "silent e") exists for a number of other words or terms from Latin, such as rationale, bona fide(s) and Clostridium difficile.
Aside from spelling pronunciation, another factor that might have contributed to the use of a monosyllabic pronunciation of vice in vice versa might be influence from the French pronunciation of a prefix derived from Latin vice. The OED entry on this prefix says "From the 13th cent. onwards a number of these [compounds] appear in Old French, at first usually with the prefix in the form of vis-, vi-, but latterly assimilated as a rule to the Latin original. [...] The older examples in English, having been taken immediately from French, also present the prefix in the reduced forms vis- (vys, viz-) and vi- (vy-), subsequently replaced by vice- (also in early use vize-) except in viscount n." As far as I know, the prefix vice-, as in vice-chairman, is always pronounced as a monosyllable in English.
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
add a comment |
Vice can have a disyllabic pronunciation because of its Latin origins
As vectory said, the pronunciation with four syllables didn't originate as "vice-a-versa", but as "vi-ce versa", with a non-silent e at the end of vice. Latin doesn't have silent e, and the phrase vice versa comes directly from Latin.
In the "traditional" English pronunciation of Latin, final e's in words like this were pronounced with the vowel found at the end of lily or happy. In an old-fashioned "RP" British English accent, this sound is identified as /ɪ/ (the "ih" sound of "kit"); in other accents, it is identified as /i/ (an unstressed version of the "ee" sound of "fleece"). For example, the e at the end of the word simile, which comes from a Latin adjective, is pronounced this way.
For some reason, vice versa developed a variant pronunciation with /ə/. My guess would be that the phrase was treated as a single word, and so the vowel was reduced more than a word-final vowel would be: for comparison, the word-internal "i" in the word happily is often pronounced as /ə/, even though in most accents it is not usual to pronounce happy with /ə/.
Vice also has a monosyllabic pronunciation
Vice versa also has what seems to be a "spelling pronunciation" where vice is pronounced as a single syllable /vaɪs/. This kind of spelling pronunciation (treating "e" at the end of a word as "silent e") exists for a number of other words or terms from Latin, such as rationale, bona fide(s) and Clostridium difficile.
Aside from spelling pronunciation, another factor that might have contributed to the use of a monosyllabic pronunciation of vice in vice versa might be influence from the French pronunciation of a prefix derived from Latin vice. The OED entry on this prefix says "From the 13th cent. onwards a number of these [compounds] appear in Old French, at first usually with the prefix in the form of vis-, vi-, but latterly assimilated as a rule to the Latin original. [...] The older examples in English, having been taken immediately from French, also present the prefix in the reduced forms vis- (vys, viz-) and vi- (vy-), subsequently replaced by vice- (also in early use vize-) except in viscount n." As far as I know, the prefix vice-, as in vice-chairman, is always pronounced as a monosyllable in English.
Vice can have a disyllabic pronunciation because of its Latin origins
As vectory said, the pronunciation with four syllables didn't originate as "vice-a-versa", but as "vi-ce versa", with a non-silent e at the end of vice. Latin doesn't have silent e, and the phrase vice versa comes directly from Latin.
In the "traditional" English pronunciation of Latin, final e's in words like this were pronounced with the vowel found at the end of lily or happy. In an old-fashioned "RP" British English accent, this sound is identified as /ɪ/ (the "ih" sound of "kit"); in other accents, it is identified as /i/ (an unstressed version of the "ee" sound of "fleece"). For example, the e at the end of the word simile, which comes from a Latin adjective, is pronounced this way.
For some reason, vice versa developed a variant pronunciation with /ə/. My guess would be that the phrase was treated as a single word, and so the vowel was reduced more than a word-final vowel would be: for comparison, the word-internal "i" in the word happily is often pronounced as /ə/, even though in most accents it is not usual to pronounce happy with /ə/.
Vice also has a monosyllabic pronunciation
Vice versa also has what seems to be a "spelling pronunciation" where vice is pronounced as a single syllable /vaɪs/. This kind of spelling pronunciation (treating "e" at the end of a word as "silent e") exists for a number of other words or terms from Latin, such as rationale, bona fide(s) and Clostridium difficile.
Aside from spelling pronunciation, another factor that might have contributed to the use of a monosyllabic pronunciation of vice in vice versa might be influence from the French pronunciation of a prefix derived from Latin vice. The OED entry on this prefix says "From the 13th cent. onwards a number of these [compounds] appear in Old French, at first usually with the prefix in the form of vis-, vi-, but latterly assimilated as a rule to the Latin original. [...] The older examples in English, having been taken immediately from French, also present the prefix in the reduced forms vis- (vys, viz-) and vi- (vy-), subsequently replaced by vice- (also in early use vize-) except in viscount n." As far as I know, the prefix vice-, as in vice-chairman, is always pronounced as a monosyllable in English.
edited Mar 17 at 8:42
answered Mar 17 at 7:43
sumelicsumelic
49.9k8117225
49.9k8117225
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
add a comment |
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
How often do you find yourself using Clostridium difficile in casual conversation, exactly?
– Janus Bahs Jacquet
Mar 17 at 20:07
add a comment |
According to Longman's Pronunciation Dictionary and the OLD, the standard pronunciation of vice in vice versa is vais in AE but vaisi or, relevant to your question, vaisə in BE. Most likely, the latter variant can also be heard in other parts of the world.
(Note that English often uses the Schwa sound ə for foreign words ending in "e", even though this is generally not correct. For example, German has another Schwa sound. This distinction is missed even by dictionaries and underlies the long-standing controversy regarding the pronunciation of Porsche.)
add a comment |
According to Longman's Pronunciation Dictionary and the OLD, the standard pronunciation of vice in vice versa is vais in AE but vaisi or, relevant to your question, vaisə in BE. Most likely, the latter variant can also be heard in other parts of the world.
(Note that English often uses the Schwa sound ə for foreign words ending in "e", even though this is generally not correct. For example, German has another Schwa sound. This distinction is missed even by dictionaries and underlies the long-standing controversy regarding the pronunciation of Porsche.)
add a comment |
According to Longman's Pronunciation Dictionary and the OLD, the standard pronunciation of vice in vice versa is vais in AE but vaisi or, relevant to your question, vaisə in BE. Most likely, the latter variant can also be heard in other parts of the world.
(Note that English often uses the Schwa sound ə for foreign words ending in "e", even though this is generally not correct. For example, German has another Schwa sound. This distinction is missed even by dictionaries and underlies the long-standing controversy regarding the pronunciation of Porsche.)
According to Longman's Pronunciation Dictionary and the OLD, the standard pronunciation of vice in vice versa is vais in AE but vaisi or, relevant to your question, vaisə in BE. Most likely, the latter variant can also be heard in other parts of the world.
(Note that English often uses the Schwa sound ə for foreign words ending in "e", even though this is generally not correct. For example, German has another Schwa sound. This distinction is missed even by dictionaries and underlies the long-standing controversy regarding the pronunciation of Porsche.)
edited Mar 17 at 7:51
answered Mar 17 at 7:44
painfulenglishpainfulenglish
1,49111435
1,49111435
add a comment |
add a comment |
The e in vice is not silent in Latin. That sound had been pronounced, then rebracketed (like a nadder ~ an adder), and consequently fit into the common *-a-* pattern.
add a comment |
The e in vice is not silent in Latin. That sound had been pronounced, then rebracketed (like a nadder ~ an adder), and consequently fit into the common *-a-* pattern.
add a comment |
The e in vice is not silent in Latin. That sound had been pronounced, then rebracketed (like a nadder ~ an adder), and consequently fit into the common *-a-* pattern.
The e in vice is not silent in Latin. That sound had been pronounced, then rebracketed (like a nadder ~ an adder), and consequently fit into the common *-a-* pattern.
edited Mar 17 at 19:04
answered Mar 17 at 7:30
vectoryvectory
2139
2139
add a comment |
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Welcome, Vortix. A quick search and website reveals all. We prefer questions with actual context and research, so they're fully fleshed out. See How to Ask.
– Lordology
Mar 17 at 9:05