How does residential electricity work?












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I'm trying to understand how the electricity works in my house. I live in the US. I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding. The secondary winding is center tapped with a "neutral" line. The neutral line is grounded to the Earth. Here is the diagram:



enter image description here



Here are my questions:



1) When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?



2) When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth? In other words, when a conductor is "energized" but no current is flowing through it, how are the electrons behaving?



enter image description here



3) When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not? I know it has to do with it being grounded to the Earth, but I have not found an explanation of what is happenening at the level of the electron. Are the electrons alternating back and forth in and out of the Earth instead of through the neutral wire?










share|improve this question









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  • $begingroup$
    When would you expect N to ever become hot? Ie >50= LV threshold?
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The definition of hot and neutral has nothing to do with the amount of current they carry, it is because of their voltage with respect to ground. The word "energized" doesn't have any real meaning here.
    $endgroup$
    – Elliot Alderson
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    “Hot” refers to voltage potential not current. However if you broke a Neutral connection to a motor, it would arc and then become hot.
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem like anyone has yet pointed out that there are some basics about how electricity works that you might not be aware of. If the answers here aren't helping you much, then it might be because some of the basics about electricity aren't clear to you. One way to address that would be to look for online resources or books that discuss the fundamentals, like the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    " I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding" - no, it doesn't. Do you think the transformer somehow knows what circuit is connected to it, and magically starts inducing a current when it notices that you just closed the switch, and stops when it notices you opened it again? It induces a voltage, but not a current!
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago


















6












$begingroup$


I'm trying to understand how the electricity works in my house. I live in the US. I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding. The secondary winding is center tapped with a "neutral" line. The neutral line is grounded to the Earth. Here is the diagram:



enter image description here



Here are my questions:



1) When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?



2) When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth? In other words, when a conductor is "energized" but no current is flowing through it, how are the electrons behaving?



enter image description here



3) When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not? I know it has to do with it being grounded to the Earth, but I have not found an explanation of what is happenening at the level of the electron. Are the electrons alternating back and forth in and out of the Earth instead of through the neutral wire?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    When would you expect N to ever become hot? Ie >50= LV threshold?
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The definition of hot and neutral has nothing to do with the amount of current they carry, it is because of their voltage with respect to ground. The word "energized" doesn't have any real meaning here.
    $endgroup$
    – Elliot Alderson
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    “Hot” refers to voltage potential not current. However if you broke a Neutral connection to a motor, it would arc and then become hot.
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem like anyone has yet pointed out that there are some basics about how electricity works that you might not be aware of. If the answers here aren't helping you much, then it might be because some of the basics about electricity aren't clear to you. One way to address that would be to look for online resources or books that discuss the fundamentals, like the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    " I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding" - no, it doesn't. Do you think the transformer somehow knows what circuit is connected to it, and magically starts inducing a current when it notices that you just closed the switch, and stops when it notices you opened it again? It induces a voltage, but not a current!
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago
















6












6








6





$begingroup$


I'm trying to understand how the electricity works in my house. I live in the US. I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding. The secondary winding is center tapped with a "neutral" line. The neutral line is grounded to the Earth. Here is the diagram:



enter image description here



Here are my questions:



1) When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?



2) When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth? In other words, when a conductor is "energized" but no current is flowing through it, how are the electrons behaving?



enter image description here



3) When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not? I know it has to do with it being grounded to the Earth, but I have not found an explanation of what is happenening at the level of the electron. Are the electrons alternating back and forth in and out of the Earth instead of through the neutral wire?










share|improve this question









$endgroup$




I'm trying to understand how the electricity works in my house. I live in the US. I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding. The secondary winding is center tapped with a "neutral" line. The neutral line is grounded to the Earth. Here is the diagram:



enter image description here



Here are my questions:



1) When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?



2) When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth? In other words, when a conductor is "energized" but no current is flowing through it, how are the electrons behaving?



enter image description here



3) When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not? I know it has to do with it being grounded to the Earth, but I have not found an explanation of what is happenening at the level of the electron. Are the electrons alternating back and forth in and out of the Earth instead of through the neutral wire?







current transformer ac grounding






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




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asked 16 hours ago









user3080392user3080392

1383




1383












  • $begingroup$
    When would you expect N to ever become hot? Ie >50= LV threshold?
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The definition of hot and neutral has nothing to do with the amount of current they carry, it is because of their voltage with respect to ground. The word "energized" doesn't have any real meaning here.
    $endgroup$
    – Elliot Alderson
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    “Hot” refers to voltage potential not current. However if you broke a Neutral connection to a motor, it would arc and then become hot.
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem like anyone has yet pointed out that there are some basics about how electricity works that you might not be aware of. If the answers here aren't helping you much, then it might be because some of the basics about electricity aren't clear to you. One way to address that would be to look for online resources or books that discuss the fundamentals, like the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    " I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding" - no, it doesn't. Do you think the transformer somehow knows what circuit is connected to it, and magically starts inducing a current when it notices that you just closed the switch, and stops when it notices you opened it again? It induces a voltage, but not a current!
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago




















  • $begingroup$
    When would you expect N to ever become hot? Ie >50= LV threshold?
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago






  • 3




    $begingroup$
    The definition of hot and neutral has nothing to do with the amount of current they carry, it is because of their voltage with respect to ground. The word "energized" doesn't have any real meaning here.
    $endgroup$
    – Elliot Alderson
    15 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    “Hot” refers to voltage potential not current. However if you broke a Neutral connection to a motor, it would arc and then become hot.
    $endgroup$
    – Sunnyskyguy EE75
    15 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    It doesn't seem like anyone has yet pointed out that there are some basics about how electricity works that you might not be aware of. If the answers here aren't helping you much, then it might be because some of the basics about electricity aren't clear to you. One way to address that would be to look for online resources or books that discuss the fundamentals, like the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance.
    $endgroup$
    – Todd Wilcox
    13 hours ago










  • $begingroup$
    " I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding" - no, it doesn't. Do you think the transformer somehow knows what circuit is connected to it, and magically starts inducing a current when it notices that you just closed the switch, and stops when it notices you opened it again? It induces a voltage, but not a current!
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago


















$begingroup$
When would you expect N to ever become hot? Ie >50= LV threshold?
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
When would you expect N to ever become hot? Ie >50= LV threshold?
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
15 hours ago




3




3




$begingroup$
The definition of hot and neutral has nothing to do with the amount of current they carry, it is because of their voltage with respect to ground. The word "energized" doesn't have any real meaning here.
$endgroup$
– Elliot Alderson
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
The definition of hot and neutral has nothing to do with the amount of current they carry, it is because of their voltage with respect to ground. The word "energized" doesn't have any real meaning here.
$endgroup$
– Elliot Alderson
15 hours ago




2




2




$begingroup$
“Hot” refers to voltage potential not current. However if you broke a Neutral connection to a motor, it would arc and then become hot.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
15 hours ago




$begingroup$
“Hot” refers to voltage potential not current. However if you broke a Neutral connection to a motor, it would arc and then become hot.
$endgroup$
– Sunnyskyguy EE75
15 hours ago












$begingroup$
It doesn't seem like anyone has yet pointed out that there are some basics about how electricity works that you might not be aware of. If the answers here aren't helping you much, then it might be because some of the basics about electricity aren't clear to you. One way to address that would be to look for online resources or books that discuss the fundamentals, like the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance.
$endgroup$
– Todd Wilcox
13 hours ago




$begingroup$
It doesn't seem like anyone has yet pointed out that there are some basics about how electricity works that you might not be aware of. If the answers here aren't helping you much, then it might be because some of the basics about electricity aren't clear to you. One way to address that would be to look for online resources or books that discuss the fundamentals, like the relationships between voltage, current, and resistance.
$endgroup$
– Todd Wilcox
13 hours ago












$begingroup$
" I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding" - no, it doesn't. Do you think the transformer somehow knows what circuit is connected to it, and magically starts inducing a current when it notices that you just closed the switch, and stops when it notices you opened it again? It induces a voltage, but not a current!
$endgroup$
– alephzero
9 hours ago






$begingroup$
" I know that at the transformer, the primary winding induces a current in the secondary winding" - no, it doesn't. Do you think the transformer somehow knows what circuit is connected to it, and magically starts inducing a current when it notices that you just closed the switch, and stops when it notices you opened it again? It induces a voltage, but not a current!
$endgroup$
– alephzero
9 hours ago












3 Answers
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When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?




First, "a current of 120 V" doesn't make sense. The units of current are amperes or amps. Volts are a unit of voltage (potential difference), not of current.



You can have a current of 1 amp, or a voltage of 120 V, but a current of 120 V is as impossible as a length of 20 pounds or a price of three meters.



The neutral wire carries current. The amount of current is determined by the load. But its potential (voltage) remains very close to ground, so if you touched it while your feet were on the ground, there wouldn't be a very large voltage applied across your body, and therefore we don't say that this line is "hot". (Don't actually try touching the neutral line because there are a variety of ways your wiring could be faulty that could make the neutral line hot and dangerous)




When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth?




If there is a parasitic capacitance (there is) between the hot line and either the neutral line or the actual earth, then to a certain extent, the electrons in the hot wire will indeed flow back and forth charging and discharging this capacitive "load".




When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not?




The neutral line is not energized whether there is or isn't a load. Because it's tied to actual earth ground, it can't develop a potential relative to ground, and so if you touch it or connect a load between it and ground, it won't produce any current through that load. It can't produce any potential relative to ground because if there were a potential relative to ground a large current would flow (momentarily) and equalize the potentials.



When the circuit is open, a small current might flow in the neutral line due to parasitic capacitive "loads" I mentioned above.






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
    $endgroup$
    – Rich
    4 hours ago



















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  1. When the circuit is closed, both conductors are carrying a current which is dependent on the load. The phrase 'carrying a current of 120V' is nonsensical. It is not the case that hot and neutral are both hot. Hot is always hot (120V) and neutral is always neutral (0V) regardless of whether the circuit is closed. For instance, you can touch the neutral wire with the circuit closed and you will not get injured HOWEVER do NOT actually try this experiment because there is non-zero risk that something is wrong with your wiring and you can get hurt. Conversely, you can touch the hot wire with the circuit open and you will certainly get injured.


  2. Ignoring secondary effects like capacitance to ground, the electrons are taking a rest when there is no current flowing. Of course, they are still physically moving due to momentum, thermal energy, etc. but they are not moving to and fro under the effect of an electric field as they would if the circuit was closed.


  3. When the circuit is open, the neutral has no current flowing through it. The electrons are doing what they would be doing if you had a piece of wire laying on your table, connected to nothing. I'm not sure why you'd think that electrons would be going back and forth into the ground? If you stick a piece of metal in the ground, do electrons continually go back and forth from the metal to the ground? Even if the circuit was closed, electrons wouldn't be going back and forth into the Earth.



As an aside, (this may be an unpopular/controversial opinion) but I don't believe you need to know what's happening at the electron level to understand basic electricity. Even at the advanced level, the electromagnetic waves that the oscillating electrons are generating are far more consequential than the electrons themselves. It only becomes really necessary to ask yourself 'what are the electrons doing?' when/if you study semiconductor physics. Even then, you don't need a PhD in semiconductor physics to successfully design a circuit including diodes and transistors (which is good, because that stuff can get seriously complicated at an advanced level). Focusing too much on the electron when one first begins to learn about electricity leads one to such incorrect conclusions as 'electrons travel at the speed of light in a wire', 'conventional current flow is incorrect', etc.






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  • $begingroup$
    I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – user3080392
    14 hours ago






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
    $endgroup$
    – pr871
    14 hours ago






  • 4




    $begingroup$
    Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
    $endgroup$
    – pr871
    14 hours ago






  • 2




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    @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
    $endgroup$
    – Charlie Kilian
    8 hours ago



















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What you are missing here is that voltage is not current, it is pressure. The 120V side of the circuit has a lot of pressure, enough so that under bad conditions you can be killed by it. (Note that it actually takes current to kill, voltage only matters in that it must push hard enough to send enough current through you. Thus extreme voltages without the current behind them can hurt but won't kill--that's why you don't die from a static electric snap and why a teacher of mine from long ago didn't die when he made a mistake with 300,000V.)



Lets try looking at it with water instead of electricity. Go outside, consider the garden faucet. Inside the pipes there is probably something in the ballpark of 60 pounds per square inch of pressure. (This can vary considerably depending on where you are, though.) This is the equivalent of your hot wire.



Outside the faucet there's no pressure, that's your neutral. Open the faucet, water comes spitting out--that's current. You still have pressure in the pipes, though, and you still don't have pressure outside the pipe. The pressure of the water isn't enough to harm you, though--it's more like a 9V battery than mains power.






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    3 Answers
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    3 Answers
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    $begingroup$


    When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?




    First, "a current of 120 V" doesn't make sense. The units of current are amperes or amps. Volts are a unit of voltage (potential difference), not of current.



    You can have a current of 1 amp, or a voltage of 120 V, but a current of 120 V is as impossible as a length of 20 pounds or a price of three meters.



    The neutral wire carries current. The amount of current is determined by the load. But its potential (voltage) remains very close to ground, so if you touched it while your feet were on the ground, there wouldn't be a very large voltage applied across your body, and therefore we don't say that this line is "hot". (Don't actually try touching the neutral line because there are a variety of ways your wiring could be faulty that could make the neutral line hot and dangerous)




    When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth?




    If there is a parasitic capacitance (there is) between the hot line and either the neutral line or the actual earth, then to a certain extent, the electrons in the hot wire will indeed flow back and forth charging and discharging this capacitive "load".




    When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not?




    The neutral line is not energized whether there is or isn't a load. Because it's tied to actual earth ground, it can't develop a potential relative to ground, and so if you touch it or connect a load between it and ground, it won't produce any current through that load. It can't produce any potential relative to ground because if there were a potential relative to ground a large current would flow (momentarily) and equalize the potentials.



    When the circuit is open, a small current might flow in the neutral line due to parasitic capacitive "loads" I mentioned above.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
      $endgroup$
      – Rich
      4 hours ago
















    9












    $begingroup$


    When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?




    First, "a current of 120 V" doesn't make sense. The units of current are amperes or amps. Volts are a unit of voltage (potential difference), not of current.



    You can have a current of 1 amp, or a voltage of 120 V, but a current of 120 V is as impossible as a length of 20 pounds or a price of three meters.



    The neutral wire carries current. The amount of current is determined by the load. But its potential (voltage) remains very close to ground, so if you touched it while your feet were on the ground, there wouldn't be a very large voltage applied across your body, and therefore we don't say that this line is "hot". (Don't actually try touching the neutral line because there are a variety of ways your wiring could be faulty that could make the neutral line hot and dangerous)




    When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth?




    If there is a parasitic capacitance (there is) between the hot line and either the neutral line or the actual earth, then to a certain extent, the electrons in the hot wire will indeed flow back and forth charging and discharging this capacitive "load".




    When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not?




    The neutral line is not energized whether there is or isn't a load. Because it's tied to actual earth ground, it can't develop a potential relative to ground, and so if you touch it or connect a load between it and ground, it won't produce any current through that load. It can't produce any potential relative to ground because if there were a potential relative to ground a large current would flow (momentarily) and equalize the potentials.



    When the circuit is open, a small current might flow in the neutral line due to parasitic capacitive "loads" I mentioned above.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$









    • 2




      $begingroup$
      People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
      $endgroup$
      – Rich
      4 hours ago














    9












    9








    9





    $begingroup$


    When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?




    First, "a current of 120 V" doesn't make sense. The units of current are amperes or amps. Volts are a unit of voltage (potential difference), not of current.



    You can have a current of 1 amp, or a voltage of 120 V, but a current of 120 V is as impossible as a length of 20 pounds or a price of three meters.



    The neutral wire carries current. The amount of current is determined by the load. But its potential (voltage) remains very close to ground, so if you touched it while your feet were on the ground, there wouldn't be a very large voltage applied across your body, and therefore we don't say that this line is "hot". (Don't actually try touching the neutral line because there are a variety of ways your wiring could be faulty that could make the neutral line hot and dangerous)




    When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth?




    If there is a parasitic capacitance (there is) between the hot line and either the neutral line or the actual earth, then to a certain extent, the electrons in the hot wire will indeed flow back and forth charging and discharging this capacitive "load".




    When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not?




    The neutral line is not energized whether there is or isn't a load. Because it's tied to actual earth ground, it can't develop a potential relative to ground, and so if you touch it or connect a load between it and ground, it won't produce any current through that load. It can't produce any potential relative to ground because if there were a potential relative to ground a large current would flow (momentarily) and equalize the potentials.



    When the circuit is open, a small current might flow in the neutral line due to parasitic capacitive "loads" I mentioned above.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




    When the circuit is closed, are hot 1 and neutral both "hot"? That is, are they both carrying a current of 120V that is alternating back and forth?




    First, "a current of 120 V" doesn't make sense. The units of current are amperes or amps. Volts are a unit of voltage (potential difference), not of current.



    You can have a current of 1 amp, or a voltage of 120 V, but a current of 120 V is as impossible as a length of 20 pounds or a price of three meters.



    The neutral wire carries current. The amount of current is determined by the load. But its potential (voltage) remains very close to ground, so if you touched it while your feet were on the ground, there wouldn't be a very large voltage applied across your body, and therefore we don't say that this line is "hot". (Don't actually try touching the neutral line because there are a variety of ways your wiring could be faulty that could make the neutral line hot and dangerous)




    When the circuit is open, there is no current flowing. So, what are the electrons in hot 1 doing? Are they still oscillating back and forth?




    If there is a parasitic capacitance (there is) between the hot line and either the neutral line or the actual earth, then to a certain extent, the electrons in the hot wire will indeed flow back and forth charging and discharging this capacitive "load".




    When the circuit is open, the neutral is not "energized" like hot 1. Why not?




    The neutral line is not energized whether there is or isn't a load. Because it's tied to actual earth ground, it can't develop a potential relative to ground, and so if you touch it or connect a load between it and ground, it won't produce any current through that load. It can't produce any potential relative to ground because if there were a potential relative to ground a large current would flow (momentarily) and equalize the potentials.



    When the circuit is open, a small current might flow in the neutral line due to parasitic capacitive "loads" I mentioned above.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 15 hours ago









    The PhotonThe Photon

    86.5k398199




    86.5k398199








    • 2




      $begingroup$
      People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
      $endgroup$
      – Rich
      4 hours ago














    • 2




      $begingroup$
      People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
      $endgroup$
      – Rich
      4 hours ago








    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
    $endgroup$
    – Rich
    4 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    People in the USA often use "current" colloquially and incorrectly when they mean "voltage", e.g. "mains current". I blame Edison.
    $endgroup$
    – Rich
    4 hours ago













    6












    $begingroup$


    1. When the circuit is closed, both conductors are carrying a current which is dependent on the load. The phrase 'carrying a current of 120V' is nonsensical. It is not the case that hot and neutral are both hot. Hot is always hot (120V) and neutral is always neutral (0V) regardless of whether the circuit is closed. For instance, you can touch the neutral wire with the circuit closed and you will not get injured HOWEVER do NOT actually try this experiment because there is non-zero risk that something is wrong with your wiring and you can get hurt. Conversely, you can touch the hot wire with the circuit open and you will certainly get injured.


    2. Ignoring secondary effects like capacitance to ground, the electrons are taking a rest when there is no current flowing. Of course, they are still physically moving due to momentum, thermal energy, etc. but they are not moving to and fro under the effect of an electric field as they would if the circuit was closed.


    3. When the circuit is open, the neutral has no current flowing through it. The electrons are doing what they would be doing if you had a piece of wire laying on your table, connected to nothing. I'm not sure why you'd think that electrons would be going back and forth into the ground? If you stick a piece of metal in the ground, do electrons continually go back and forth from the metal to the ground? Even if the circuit was closed, electrons wouldn't be going back and forth into the Earth.



    As an aside, (this may be an unpopular/controversial opinion) but I don't believe you need to know what's happening at the electron level to understand basic electricity. Even at the advanced level, the electromagnetic waves that the oscillating electrons are generating are far more consequential than the electrons themselves. It only becomes really necessary to ask yourself 'what are the electrons doing?' when/if you study semiconductor physics. Even then, you don't need a PhD in semiconductor physics to successfully design a circuit including diodes and transistors (which is good, because that stuff can get seriously complicated at an advanced level). Focusing too much on the electron when one first begins to learn about electricity leads one to such incorrect conclusions as 'electrons travel at the speed of light in a wire', 'conventional current flow is incorrect', etc.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
      $endgroup$
      – user3080392
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
      $endgroup$
      – alephzero
      9 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
      $endgroup$
      – Charlie Kilian
      8 hours ago
















    6












    $begingroup$


    1. When the circuit is closed, both conductors are carrying a current which is dependent on the load. The phrase 'carrying a current of 120V' is nonsensical. It is not the case that hot and neutral are both hot. Hot is always hot (120V) and neutral is always neutral (0V) regardless of whether the circuit is closed. For instance, you can touch the neutral wire with the circuit closed and you will not get injured HOWEVER do NOT actually try this experiment because there is non-zero risk that something is wrong with your wiring and you can get hurt. Conversely, you can touch the hot wire with the circuit open and you will certainly get injured.


    2. Ignoring secondary effects like capacitance to ground, the electrons are taking a rest when there is no current flowing. Of course, they are still physically moving due to momentum, thermal energy, etc. but they are not moving to and fro under the effect of an electric field as they would if the circuit was closed.


    3. When the circuit is open, the neutral has no current flowing through it. The electrons are doing what they would be doing if you had a piece of wire laying on your table, connected to nothing. I'm not sure why you'd think that electrons would be going back and forth into the ground? If you stick a piece of metal in the ground, do electrons continually go back and forth from the metal to the ground? Even if the circuit was closed, electrons wouldn't be going back and forth into the Earth.



    As an aside, (this may be an unpopular/controversial opinion) but I don't believe you need to know what's happening at the electron level to understand basic electricity. Even at the advanced level, the electromagnetic waves that the oscillating electrons are generating are far more consequential than the electrons themselves. It only becomes really necessary to ask yourself 'what are the electrons doing?' when/if you study semiconductor physics. Even then, you don't need a PhD in semiconductor physics to successfully design a circuit including diodes and transistors (which is good, because that stuff can get seriously complicated at an advanced level). Focusing too much on the electron when one first begins to learn about electricity leads one to such incorrect conclusions as 'electrons travel at the speed of light in a wire', 'conventional current flow is incorrect', etc.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
      $endgroup$
      – user3080392
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
      $endgroup$
      – alephzero
      9 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
      $endgroup$
      – Charlie Kilian
      8 hours ago














    6












    6








    6





    $begingroup$


    1. When the circuit is closed, both conductors are carrying a current which is dependent on the load. The phrase 'carrying a current of 120V' is nonsensical. It is not the case that hot and neutral are both hot. Hot is always hot (120V) and neutral is always neutral (0V) regardless of whether the circuit is closed. For instance, you can touch the neutral wire with the circuit closed and you will not get injured HOWEVER do NOT actually try this experiment because there is non-zero risk that something is wrong with your wiring and you can get hurt. Conversely, you can touch the hot wire with the circuit open and you will certainly get injured.


    2. Ignoring secondary effects like capacitance to ground, the electrons are taking a rest when there is no current flowing. Of course, they are still physically moving due to momentum, thermal energy, etc. but they are not moving to and fro under the effect of an electric field as they would if the circuit was closed.


    3. When the circuit is open, the neutral has no current flowing through it. The electrons are doing what they would be doing if you had a piece of wire laying on your table, connected to nothing. I'm not sure why you'd think that electrons would be going back and forth into the ground? If you stick a piece of metal in the ground, do electrons continually go back and forth from the metal to the ground? Even if the circuit was closed, electrons wouldn't be going back and forth into the Earth.



    As an aside, (this may be an unpopular/controversial opinion) but I don't believe you need to know what's happening at the electron level to understand basic electricity. Even at the advanced level, the electromagnetic waves that the oscillating electrons are generating are far more consequential than the electrons themselves. It only becomes really necessary to ask yourself 'what are the electrons doing?' when/if you study semiconductor physics. Even then, you don't need a PhD in semiconductor physics to successfully design a circuit including diodes and transistors (which is good, because that stuff can get seriously complicated at an advanced level). Focusing too much on the electron when one first begins to learn about electricity leads one to such incorrect conclusions as 'electrons travel at the speed of light in a wire', 'conventional current flow is incorrect', etc.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$




    1. When the circuit is closed, both conductors are carrying a current which is dependent on the load. The phrase 'carrying a current of 120V' is nonsensical. It is not the case that hot and neutral are both hot. Hot is always hot (120V) and neutral is always neutral (0V) regardless of whether the circuit is closed. For instance, you can touch the neutral wire with the circuit closed and you will not get injured HOWEVER do NOT actually try this experiment because there is non-zero risk that something is wrong with your wiring and you can get hurt. Conversely, you can touch the hot wire with the circuit open and you will certainly get injured.


    2. Ignoring secondary effects like capacitance to ground, the electrons are taking a rest when there is no current flowing. Of course, they are still physically moving due to momentum, thermal energy, etc. but they are not moving to and fro under the effect of an electric field as they would if the circuit was closed.


    3. When the circuit is open, the neutral has no current flowing through it. The electrons are doing what they would be doing if you had a piece of wire laying on your table, connected to nothing. I'm not sure why you'd think that electrons would be going back and forth into the ground? If you stick a piece of metal in the ground, do electrons continually go back and forth from the metal to the ground? Even if the circuit was closed, electrons wouldn't be going back and forth into the Earth.



    As an aside, (this may be an unpopular/controversial opinion) but I don't believe you need to know what's happening at the electron level to understand basic electricity. Even at the advanced level, the electromagnetic waves that the oscillating electrons are generating are far more consequential than the electrons themselves. It only becomes really necessary to ask yourself 'what are the electrons doing?' when/if you study semiconductor physics. Even then, you don't need a PhD in semiconductor physics to successfully design a circuit including diodes and transistors (which is good, because that stuff can get seriously complicated at an advanced level). Focusing too much on the electron when one first begins to learn about electricity leads one to such incorrect conclusions as 'electrons travel at the speed of light in a wire', 'conventional current flow is incorrect', etc.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered 15 hours ago









    pr871pr871

    461211




    461211












    • $begingroup$
      I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
      $endgroup$
      – user3080392
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
      $endgroup$
      – alephzero
      9 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
      $endgroup$
      – Charlie Kilian
      8 hours ago


















    • $begingroup$
      I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
      $endgroup$
      – user3080392
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 4




      $begingroup$
      Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
      $endgroup$
      – pr871
      14 hours ago






    • 2




      $begingroup$
      @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
      $endgroup$
      – alephzero
      9 hours ago






    • 1




      $begingroup$
      Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
      $endgroup$
      – Charlie Kilian
      8 hours ago
















    $begingroup$
    I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – user3080392
    14 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    I'm still confused. So what you're saying is that hot 1 always has 120V in it and neutral always has 0V in it whether there is a current flowing through it or not? So, at the electron level, what distinguishes hot 1 from neutral? Does hot 1 have more electrons in it? Both wires are "receiving" the same effect of the primary winding, but the electrons in hot 1 are somehow different than those in the neutral.
    $endgroup$
    – user3080392
    14 hours ago




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
    $endgroup$
    – pr871
    14 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Yes, hot1 always has 120V and neutral always has 0V regardless of whether or not there is current flow. Most of the time (but not always!) voltage is the independent variable and current is the dependent variable. The voltage exists independently of the current.
    $endgroup$
    – pr871
    14 hours ago




    4




    4




    $begingroup$
    Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
    $endgroup$
    – pr871
    14 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Again, your insistence on looking at things at the electron level is doing you more harm than good. Consider that in the 17th-19th century, incredible scientific advancements in the field of electricity and magnetism were made without anyone having heard of something called an 'electron'. Forget about the physical electrons (for the time being) and focus on macroscopic quantities like charge, voltage, current, etc.
    $endgroup$
    – pr871
    14 hours ago




    2




    2




    $begingroup$
    @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    @user3080392 If you really insist on understanding "how the electrons behave," you will have to learn FAR more about electromagnetism than you currently know. For example, you need to understand now capacitors work (including the fact that the earth is effectively a capacitor), and that when the switch is open, the geometrical configuration of wires still behaves like an antenna, creating electromagnetic waves in space. But none of this is necessary to "know how electricity works in your house" unless you insist on going down this rabbit hole.
    $endgroup$
    – alephzero
    9 hours ago




    1




    1




    $begingroup$
    Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
    $endgroup$
    – Charlie Kilian
    8 hours ago




    $begingroup$
    Electrons are not little spheres. As other people have said, what electrons are is actually very complicated and not necessary to understand -- thankfully! Frankly, what they are is not even perfectly understood by physicists (well, their behavior is very well understood, mathematically speaking, but what the equations actually mean at a fundamental level is open to interpretation).
    $endgroup$
    – Charlie Kilian
    8 hours ago











    3












    $begingroup$

    What you are missing here is that voltage is not current, it is pressure. The 120V side of the circuit has a lot of pressure, enough so that under bad conditions you can be killed by it. (Note that it actually takes current to kill, voltage only matters in that it must push hard enough to send enough current through you. Thus extreme voltages without the current behind them can hurt but won't kill--that's why you don't die from a static electric snap and why a teacher of mine from long ago didn't die when he made a mistake with 300,000V.)



    Lets try looking at it with water instead of electricity. Go outside, consider the garden faucet. Inside the pipes there is probably something in the ballpark of 60 pounds per square inch of pressure. (This can vary considerably depending on where you are, though.) This is the equivalent of your hot wire.



    Outside the faucet there's no pressure, that's your neutral. Open the faucet, water comes spitting out--that's current. You still have pressure in the pipes, though, and you still don't have pressure outside the pipe. The pressure of the water isn't enough to harm you, though--it's more like a 9V battery than mains power.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$


















      3












      $begingroup$

      What you are missing here is that voltage is not current, it is pressure. The 120V side of the circuit has a lot of pressure, enough so that under bad conditions you can be killed by it. (Note that it actually takes current to kill, voltage only matters in that it must push hard enough to send enough current through you. Thus extreme voltages without the current behind them can hurt but won't kill--that's why you don't die from a static electric snap and why a teacher of mine from long ago didn't die when he made a mistake with 300,000V.)



      Lets try looking at it with water instead of electricity. Go outside, consider the garden faucet. Inside the pipes there is probably something in the ballpark of 60 pounds per square inch of pressure. (This can vary considerably depending on where you are, though.) This is the equivalent of your hot wire.



      Outside the faucet there's no pressure, that's your neutral. Open the faucet, water comes spitting out--that's current. You still have pressure in the pipes, though, and you still don't have pressure outside the pipe. The pressure of the water isn't enough to harm you, though--it's more like a 9V battery than mains power.






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$
















        3












        3








        3





        $begingroup$

        What you are missing here is that voltage is not current, it is pressure. The 120V side of the circuit has a lot of pressure, enough so that under bad conditions you can be killed by it. (Note that it actually takes current to kill, voltage only matters in that it must push hard enough to send enough current through you. Thus extreme voltages without the current behind them can hurt but won't kill--that's why you don't die from a static electric snap and why a teacher of mine from long ago didn't die when he made a mistake with 300,000V.)



        Lets try looking at it with water instead of electricity. Go outside, consider the garden faucet. Inside the pipes there is probably something in the ballpark of 60 pounds per square inch of pressure. (This can vary considerably depending on where you are, though.) This is the equivalent of your hot wire.



        Outside the faucet there's no pressure, that's your neutral. Open the faucet, water comes spitting out--that's current. You still have pressure in the pipes, though, and you still don't have pressure outside the pipe. The pressure of the water isn't enough to harm you, though--it's more like a 9V battery than mains power.






        share|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        What you are missing here is that voltage is not current, it is pressure. The 120V side of the circuit has a lot of pressure, enough so that under bad conditions you can be killed by it. (Note that it actually takes current to kill, voltage only matters in that it must push hard enough to send enough current through you. Thus extreme voltages without the current behind them can hurt but won't kill--that's why you don't die from a static electric snap and why a teacher of mine from long ago didn't die when he made a mistake with 300,000V.)



        Lets try looking at it with water instead of electricity. Go outside, consider the garden faucet. Inside the pipes there is probably something in the ballpark of 60 pounds per square inch of pressure. (This can vary considerably depending on where you are, though.) This is the equivalent of your hot wire.



        Outside the faucet there's no pressure, that's your neutral. Open the faucet, water comes spitting out--that's current. You still have pressure in the pipes, though, and you still don't have pressure outside the pipe. The pressure of the water isn't enough to harm you, though--it's more like a 9V battery than mains power.







        share|improve this answer












        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer










        answered 7 hours ago









        Loren PechtelLoren Pechtel

        20328




        20328






























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