Preposition stranding: is it possible to remove preposition altogether?












4















Here is one phrase:




This mayhem is not something to put up with.




Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.



How about this one, a title for a UI element:




The list to add items to.




Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?



Similarly:




The dropdown box to select items from.




Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?



Something from a kitchen:




A tray to put fruits on.




Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).



Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?






grammar prepositions







share|improve this question























  • The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.

    – WS2
    12 hours ago











  • Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.

    – Hugh
    12 hours ago
















4















Here is one phrase:




This mayhem is not something to put up with.




Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.



How about this one, a title for a UI element:




The list to add items to.




Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?



Similarly:




The dropdown box to select items from.




Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?



Something from a kitchen:




A tray to put fruits on.




Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).



Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?






grammar prepositions







share|improve this question























  • The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.

    – WS2
    12 hours ago











  • Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.

    – Hugh
    12 hours ago














4












4








4








Here is one phrase:




This mayhem is not something to put up with.




Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.



How about this one, a title for a UI element:




The list to add items to.




Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?



Similarly:




The dropdown box to select items from.




Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?



Something from a kitchen:




A tray to put fruits on.




Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).



Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?






grammar prepositions







share|improve this question














Here is one phrase:




This mayhem is not something to put up with.




Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.



How about this one, a title for a UI element:




The list to add items to.




Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?



Similarly:




The dropdown box to select items from.




Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?



Something from a kitchen:




A tray to put fruits on.




Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).



Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?






grammar prepositions




grammar prepositions






share|improve this question













share|improve this question











share|improve this question




share|improve this question










asked 13 hours ago









Rusty CoreRusty Core

1676




1676













  • The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.

    – WS2
    12 hours ago











  • Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.

    – Hugh
    12 hours ago



















  • The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.

    – WS2
    12 hours ago











  • Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.

    – Hugh
    12 hours ago

















The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.

– WS2
12 hours ago





The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.

– WS2
12 hours ago













Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.

– Hugh
12 hours ago





Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.

– Hugh
12 hours ago










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















4














By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.



Examples:



The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added

The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items



The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected

The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items



I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner

I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak



The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it

The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car



The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall

The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)



Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."






share|improve this answer


























  • Don't jump and climb on the car.

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

    – Juhasz
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

    – Rusty Core
    10 hours ago











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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4














By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.



Examples:



The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added

The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items



The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected

The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items



I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner

I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak



The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it

The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car



The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall

The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)



Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."






share|improve this answer


























  • Don't jump and climb on the car.

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

    – Juhasz
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

    – Rusty Core
    10 hours ago
















4














By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.



Examples:



The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added

The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items



The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected

The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items



I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner

I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak



The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it

The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car



The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall

The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)



Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."






share|improve this answer


























  • Don't jump and climb on the car.

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

    – Juhasz
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

    – Rusty Core
    10 hours ago














4












4








4







By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.



Examples:



The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added

The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items



The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected

The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items



I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner

I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak



The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it

The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car



The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall

The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)



Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."






share|improve this answer















By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.



Examples:



The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added

The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items



The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected

The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items



I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner

I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak



The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it

The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car



The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall

The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)



Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 11 hours ago

























answered 11 hours ago









JuhaszJuhasz

2,7131511




2,7131511













  • Don't jump and climb on the car.

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

    – Juhasz
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

    – Rusty Core
    10 hours ago



















  • Don't jump and climb on the car.

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

    – Juhasz
    11 hours ago






  • 1





    No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

    – Lambie
    11 hours ago











  • I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

    – Rusty Core
    10 hours ago

















Don't jump and climb on the car.

– Lambie
11 hours ago





Don't jump and climb on the car.

– Lambie
11 hours ago













Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

– Juhasz
11 hours ago





Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie

– Juhasz
11 hours ago




1




1





No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

– Lambie
11 hours ago





No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?

– Lambie
11 hours ago













I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

– Rusty Core
10 hours ago





I think a case that works is "Whom are you calling to?" and "Whom are you calling?" but in this case "to" is almost unnecessary.

– Rusty Core
10 hours ago


















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