Contradiction proof for inequality of P and NP?
$begingroup$
I'm trying to argue that N is not equal NP using hierarchy theorems. This is my argument, but when I showed it to our teacher and after deduction, he said that this is problematic where I can't find a compelling reason to accept.
We start off by assuming that $P=NP$. Then it yields that $mathit{SAT} in P$ which itself then follows that $mathit{SAT} in TIME(n^k)$. As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $mathit{SAT}$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$. On the contrary, the time hierarchy theorem states that there should be a language $A in TIME(n^{k+1})$, that's not in $TIME(n^k)$. This would lead us to conclude that $A$ is in $P$, while not in $NP$, which is a contradiction to our first assumption. So, we came to the conclusion that $P neq NP$.
Is there something wrong with my proof?
complexity-theory time-complexity p-vs-np
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm trying to argue that N is not equal NP using hierarchy theorems. This is my argument, but when I showed it to our teacher and after deduction, he said that this is problematic where I can't find a compelling reason to accept.
We start off by assuming that $P=NP$. Then it yields that $mathit{SAT} in P$ which itself then follows that $mathit{SAT} in TIME(n^k)$. As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $mathit{SAT}$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$. On the contrary, the time hierarchy theorem states that there should be a language $A in TIME(n^{k+1})$, that's not in $TIME(n^k)$. This would lead us to conclude that $A$ is in $P$, while not in $NP$, which is a contradiction to our first assumption. So, we came to the conclusion that $P neq NP$.
Is there something wrong with my proof?
complexity-theory time-complexity p-vs-np
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Please, write something like$mathit{SAT}$instead of$SAT$. As Leslie Lamport wrote in his original LaTeX book, the latter stands for S times A times T.
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:31
$begingroup$
Better yet, use thecomplexitypackage and simply writeSAT. (I guess that's not available on this stack, though.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:39
$begingroup$
@Oliphaunt Why not suggest an edit when you can improve the post? Although I must say that here the difference (if any) is a lot more subtle than I'd expect.
$endgroup$
– Discrete lizard♦
Apr 26 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@Discretelizard I often do, but it was "too much work" this time (i was / am on mobile). Entering all those $ and is finicky work. I chose to educate instead. (This decision may not have been entirely rational.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 26 at 11:38
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm trying to argue that N is not equal NP using hierarchy theorems. This is my argument, but when I showed it to our teacher and after deduction, he said that this is problematic where I can't find a compelling reason to accept.
We start off by assuming that $P=NP$. Then it yields that $mathit{SAT} in P$ which itself then follows that $mathit{SAT} in TIME(n^k)$. As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $mathit{SAT}$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$. On the contrary, the time hierarchy theorem states that there should be a language $A in TIME(n^{k+1})$, that's not in $TIME(n^k)$. This would lead us to conclude that $A$ is in $P$, while not in $NP$, which is a contradiction to our first assumption. So, we came to the conclusion that $P neq NP$.
Is there something wrong with my proof?
complexity-theory time-complexity p-vs-np
$endgroup$
I'm trying to argue that N is not equal NP using hierarchy theorems. This is my argument, but when I showed it to our teacher and after deduction, he said that this is problematic where I can't find a compelling reason to accept.
We start off by assuming that $P=NP$. Then it yields that $mathit{SAT} in P$ which itself then follows that $mathit{SAT} in TIME(n^k)$. As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $mathit{SAT}$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$. On the contrary, the time hierarchy theorem states that there should be a language $A in TIME(n^{k+1})$, that's not in $TIME(n^k)$. This would lead us to conclude that $A$ is in $P$, while not in $NP$, which is a contradiction to our first assumption. So, we came to the conclusion that $P neq NP$.
Is there something wrong with my proof?
complexity-theory time-complexity p-vs-np
complexity-theory time-complexity p-vs-np
edited Apr 26 at 7:29
Discrete lizard♦
5,10311642
5,10311642
asked Apr 25 at 4:12
inverted_indexinverted_index
19117
19117
2
$begingroup$
Please, write something like$mathit{SAT}$instead of$SAT$. As Leslie Lamport wrote in his original LaTeX book, the latter stands for S times A times T.
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:31
$begingroup$
Better yet, use thecomplexitypackage and simply writeSAT. (I guess that's not available on this stack, though.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:39
$begingroup$
@Oliphaunt Why not suggest an edit when you can improve the post? Although I must say that here the difference (if any) is a lot more subtle than I'd expect.
$endgroup$
– Discrete lizard♦
Apr 26 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@Discretelizard I often do, but it was "too much work" this time (i was / am on mobile). Entering all those $ and is finicky work. I chose to educate instead. (This decision may not have been entirely rational.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 26 at 11:38
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Please, write something like$mathit{SAT}$instead of$SAT$. As Leslie Lamport wrote in his original LaTeX book, the latter stands for S times A times T.
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:31
$begingroup$
Better yet, use thecomplexitypackage and simply writeSAT. (I guess that's not available on this stack, though.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:39
$begingroup$
@Oliphaunt Why not suggest an edit when you can improve the post? Although I must say that here the difference (if any) is a lot more subtle than I'd expect.
$endgroup$
– Discrete lizard♦
Apr 26 at 7:29
1
$begingroup$
@Discretelizard I often do, but it was "too much work" this time (i was / am on mobile). Entering all those $ and is finicky work. I chose to educate instead. (This decision may not have been entirely rational.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 26 at 11:38
2
2
$begingroup$
Please, write something like
$mathit{SAT}$ instead of $SAT$. As Leslie Lamport wrote in his original LaTeX book, the latter stands for S times A times T.$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:31
$begingroup$
Please, write something like
$mathit{SAT}$ instead of $SAT$. As Leslie Lamport wrote in his original LaTeX book, the latter stands for S times A times T.$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:31
$begingroup$
Better yet, use the
complexity package and simply write SAT. (I guess that's not available on this stack, though.)$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:39
$begingroup$
Better yet, use the
complexity package and simply write SAT. (I guess that's not available on this stack, though.)$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:39
$begingroup$
@Oliphaunt Why not suggest an edit when you can improve the post? Although I must say that here the difference (if any) is a lot more subtle than I'd expect.
$endgroup$
– Discrete lizard♦
Apr 26 at 7:29
$begingroup$
@Oliphaunt Why not suggest an edit when you can improve the post? Although I must say that here the difference (if any) is a lot more subtle than I'd expect.
$endgroup$
– Discrete lizard♦
Apr 26 at 7:29
1
1
$begingroup$
@Discretelizard I often do, but it was "too much work" this time (i was / am on mobile). Entering all those $ and is finicky work. I chose to educate instead. (This decision may not have been entirely rational.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 26 at 11:38
$begingroup$
@Discretelizard I often do, but it was "too much work" this time (i was / am on mobile). Entering all those $ and is finicky work. I chose to educate instead. (This decision may not have been entirely rational.)
$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 26 at 11:38
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Then it yields that $SAT in P$ which itself then follows that $SAT in TIME(n^k)$.
Sure.
As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $SAT$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$.
No. Polynomial time reductions aren't free. We can say it takes $O(n^{r(L)})$ time to reduce language $L$ to $SAT$, where $r(L)$ is the exponent in the polynomial time reduction used. This is where your argument falls apart. There is no finite $k$ such that for all $L in NP$ we have $r(L) < k$. At least this does not follow from $P = NP$ and would be a much stronger statement.
And this stronger statement does indeed conflict with the time hierarchy theorem, which tells us that $P$ can not collapse into $TIME(n^k)$, let alone all of $NP$.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{NTIME}[n^k]$. By the nondeterministic version of the time hierarchy theorem, for any $r$, there is a problem $X_rinmathrm{NTIME}[n^r]$ that is not in $mathrm{NTIME}[n^{r-1}]$. This is an unconditional result that doesn't depend on any kind of assumption such as $mathrm{P}neqmathrm{NP}$
Choose any $r>k$. Suppose we have a deterministic reduction from $X_r$ to $mathrm{3SAT}$ that runs in time $n^t$. It produces a $mathrm{3SAT}$ instance of size at most $n^t$, which can be solved in time at most $(n^t)^k=n^{tk}$. By our choice of $X_r$, we must have $tk>r-1$, so $t>(r+1)/k$. This function grows without bound with $r$.
This means that there is no bound on how long it can take to reduce an arbitrary $mathrm{NP}$ problem to $mathrm{3SAT}$. Even if $mathrm{3SAT}in mathrm{P}$, there's still no bound on how long those reductions can take. So, in particular, even if $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$ for some $k'$, we can't conclude that $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$, or even $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k''}]$ for some $k''>k'$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Then it yields that $SAT in P$ which itself then follows that $SAT in TIME(n^k)$.
Sure.
As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $SAT$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$.
No. Polynomial time reductions aren't free. We can say it takes $O(n^{r(L)})$ time to reduce language $L$ to $SAT$, where $r(L)$ is the exponent in the polynomial time reduction used. This is where your argument falls apart. There is no finite $k$ such that for all $L in NP$ we have $r(L) < k$. At least this does not follow from $P = NP$ and would be a much stronger statement.
And this stronger statement does indeed conflict with the time hierarchy theorem, which tells us that $P$ can not collapse into $TIME(n^k)$, let alone all of $NP$.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Then it yields that $SAT in P$ which itself then follows that $SAT in TIME(n^k)$.
Sure.
As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $SAT$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$.
No. Polynomial time reductions aren't free. We can say it takes $O(n^{r(L)})$ time to reduce language $L$ to $SAT$, where $r(L)$ is the exponent in the polynomial time reduction used. This is where your argument falls apart. There is no finite $k$ such that for all $L in NP$ we have $r(L) < k$. At least this does not follow from $P = NP$ and would be a much stronger statement.
And this stronger statement does indeed conflict with the time hierarchy theorem, which tells us that $P$ can not collapse into $TIME(n^k)$, let alone all of $NP$.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Then it yields that $SAT in P$ which itself then follows that $SAT in TIME(n^k)$.
Sure.
As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $SAT$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$.
No. Polynomial time reductions aren't free. We can say it takes $O(n^{r(L)})$ time to reduce language $L$ to $SAT$, where $r(L)$ is the exponent in the polynomial time reduction used. This is where your argument falls apart. There is no finite $k$ such that for all $L in NP$ we have $r(L) < k$. At least this does not follow from $P = NP$ and would be a much stronger statement.
And this stronger statement does indeed conflict with the time hierarchy theorem, which tells us that $P$ can not collapse into $TIME(n^k)$, let alone all of $NP$.
$endgroup$
Then it yields that $SAT in P$ which itself then follows that $SAT in TIME(n^k)$.
Sure.
As stands, we are able to do reduce every language in $NP$ to $SAT$. Therefore, $NP subseteq TIME(n^k)$.
No. Polynomial time reductions aren't free. We can say it takes $O(n^{r(L)})$ time to reduce language $L$ to $SAT$, where $r(L)$ is the exponent in the polynomial time reduction used. This is where your argument falls apart. There is no finite $k$ such that for all $L in NP$ we have $r(L) < k$. At least this does not follow from $P = NP$ and would be a much stronger statement.
And this stronger statement does indeed conflict with the time hierarchy theorem, which tells us that $P$ can not collapse into $TIME(n^k)$, let alone all of $NP$.
edited Apr 25 at 5:49
answered Apr 25 at 4:38
orlporlp
6,51011128
6,51011128
1
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
1
1
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
It's not only the time for the reduction itself. You could reduce to a make larger problem. If I can solve X in O (n^5), and I can reduce a problem in Y in O (n^6) to a O(n^3) sized instance of X, then I need O (n^15) in total.
$endgroup$
– gnasher729
Apr 27 at 11:21
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
$begingroup$
Amusingly, this argument applies to PTIME-complete problems as well, e.g. HORNSAT, which is solvable in linear time (but not all problems in P are linear time).
$endgroup$
– cody
Apr 30 at 19:40
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{NTIME}[n^k]$. By the nondeterministic version of the time hierarchy theorem, for any $r$, there is a problem $X_rinmathrm{NTIME}[n^r]$ that is not in $mathrm{NTIME}[n^{r-1}]$. This is an unconditional result that doesn't depend on any kind of assumption such as $mathrm{P}neqmathrm{NP}$
Choose any $r>k$. Suppose we have a deterministic reduction from $X_r$ to $mathrm{3SAT}$ that runs in time $n^t$. It produces a $mathrm{3SAT}$ instance of size at most $n^t$, which can be solved in time at most $(n^t)^k=n^{tk}$. By our choice of $X_r$, we must have $tk>r-1$, so $t>(r+1)/k$. This function grows without bound with $r$.
This means that there is no bound on how long it can take to reduce an arbitrary $mathrm{NP}$ problem to $mathrm{3SAT}$. Even if $mathrm{3SAT}in mathrm{P}$, there's still no bound on how long those reductions can take. So, in particular, even if $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$ for some $k'$, we can't conclude that $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$, or even $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k''}]$ for some $k''>k'$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{NTIME}[n^k]$. By the nondeterministic version of the time hierarchy theorem, for any $r$, there is a problem $X_rinmathrm{NTIME}[n^r]$ that is not in $mathrm{NTIME}[n^{r-1}]$. This is an unconditional result that doesn't depend on any kind of assumption such as $mathrm{P}neqmathrm{NP}$
Choose any $r>k$. Suppose we have a deterministic reduction from $X_r$ to $mathrm{3SAT}$ that runs in time $n^t$. It produces a $mathrm{3SAT}$ instance of size at most $n^t$, which can be solved in time at most $(n^t)^k=n^{tk}$. By our choice of $X_r$, we must have $tk>r-1$, so $t>(r+1)/k$. This function grows without bound with $r$.
This means that there is no bound on how long it can take to reduce an arbitrary $mathrm{NP}$ problem to $mathrm{3SAT}$. Even if $mathrm{3SAT}in mathrm{P}$, there's still no bound on how long those reductions can take. So, in particular, even if $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$ for some $k'$, we can't conclude that $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$, or even $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k''}]$ for some $k''>k'$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{NTIME}[n^k]$. By the nondeterministic version of the time hierarchy theorem, for any $r$, there is a problem $X_rinmathrm{NTIME}[n^r]$ that is not in $mathrm{NTIME}[n^{r-1}]$. This is an unconditional result that doesn't depend on any kind of assumption such as $mathrm{P}neqmathrm{NP}$
Choose any $r>k$. Suppose we have a deterministic reduction from $X_r$ to $mathrm{3SAT}$ that runs in time $n^t$. It produces a $mathrm{3SAT}$ instance of size at most $n^t$, which can be solved in time at most $(n^t)^k=n^{tk}$. By our choice of $X_r$, we must have $tk>r-1$, so $t>(r+1)/k$. This function grows without bound with $r$.
This means that there is no bound on how long it can take to reduce an arbitrary $mathrm{NP}$ problem to $mathrm{3SAT}$. Even if $mathrm{3SAT}in mathrm{P}$, there's still no bound on how long those reductions can take. So, in particular, even if $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$ for some $k'$, we can't conclude that $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$, or even $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k''}]$ for some $k''>k'$.
$endgroup$
Suppose that $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{NTIME}[n^k]$. By the nondeterministic version of the time hierarchy theorem, for any $r$, there is a problem $X_rinmathrm{NTIME}[n^r]$ that is not in $mathrm{NTIME}[n^{r-1}]$. This is an unconditional result that doesn't depend on any kind of assumption such as $mathrm{P}neqmathrm{NP}$
Choose any $r>k$. Suppose we have a deterministic reduction from $X_r$ to $mathrm{3SAT}$ that runs in time $n^t$. It produces a $mathrm{3SAT}$ instance of size at most $n^t$, which can be solved in time at most $(n^t)^k=n^{tk}$. By our choice of $X_r$, we must have $tk>r-1$, so $t>(r+1)/k$. This function grows without bound with $r$.
This means that there is no bound on how long it can take to reduce an arbitrary $mathrm{NP}$ problem to $mathrm{3SAT}$. Even if $mathrm{3SAT}in mathrm{P}$, there's still no bound on how long those reductions can take. So, in particular, even if $mathrm{3SAT}inmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$ for some $k'$, we can't conclude that $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k'}]$, or even $mathrm{NP}subseteqmathrm{DTIME}[n^{k''}]$ for some $k''>k'$.
answered Apr 25 at 14:58
David RicherbyDavid Richerby
72.2k16111201
72.2k16111201
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Please, write something like
$mathit{SAT}$instead of$SAT$. As Leslie Lamport wrote in his original LaTeX book, the latter stands for S times A times T.$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:31
$begingroup$
Better yet, use the
complexitypackage and simply writeSAT. (I guess that's not available on this stack, though.)$endgroup$
– Oliphaunt
Apr 25 at 22:39
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@Oliphaunt Why not suggest an edit when you can improve the post? Although I must say that here the difference (if any) is a lot more subtle than I'd expect.
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– Discrete lizard♦
Apr 26 at 7:29
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@Discretelizard I often do, but it was "too much work" this time (i was / am on mobile). Entering all those $ and is finicky work. I chose to educate instead. (This decision may not have been entirely rational.)
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– Oliphaunt
Apr 26 at 11:38