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How to verify if g is a generator for p?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?How large should a Diffie-Hellman p be?Why is it impractical to generate a semiprime dictionary?Help with example RSA problemObtaining Diffie-Hellman generator“Prime conspiracy”'s effect on cryptographyHow is it possible that $g^q equiv 1 pmod p$ for a generator g?What algorithm does .NET use to generate primes for RSA and how can I verify it?How to find a generator g for a large prime p?RSA finding p and q integer with conditionEl-Gamal like encryption, how can i guess the key?
$begingroup$
For learning purpose, supposed I have a 16-digit prime which is 2685735182215187, how do I verify if g is a generator? (p is supposedly a special kind of prime)
rsa prime-numbers elgamal-encryption
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
For learning purpose, supposed I have a 16-digit prime which is 2685735182215187, how do I verify if g is a generator? (p is supposedly a special kind of prime)
rsa prime-numbers elgamal-encryption
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
The special kind of prime that you have is called a safe prime. it's a prime of the form $p = 2q + 1$ where $q$ is also prime (as shown by poncho's answer).
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 17:45
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace sorry, I'm still confused about q. Where do I actually get the q?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 18:43
$begingroup$
You can derive $q$ from $p$. In other words, to check if $p$ is a safe prime, you check if $q = fracp-12$ is also prime.
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 18:54
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace Thank you for your swift reply. I have computed and checked q=(p-1)/2 and my program returns true (it is indeed a prime). So I'm safe to say that q is also a prime, which means that p is a special kind of prime.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:03
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace However, I'm still confused about g. I have computed g^(p-1)/2 mod p and g^p-1/(p-1/2) like what poncho has mentioned. The first output is 1342867591052455, and the second output is 0. I'm a little confused about these numbers, do they mean that g is a generator?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:05
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
For learning purpose, supposed I have a 16-digit prime which is 2685735182215187, how do I verify if g is a generator? (p is supposedly a special kind of prime)
rsa prime-numbers elgamal-encryption
$endgroup$
For learning purpose, supposed I have a 16-digit prime which is 2685735182215187, how do I verify if g is a generator? (p is supposedly a special kind of prime)
rsa prime-numbers elgamal-encryption
rsa prime-numbers elgamal-encryption
asked Mar 26 at 16:30
KenKen
362
362
2
$begingroup$
The special kind of prime that you have is called a safe prime. it's a prime of the form $p = 2q + 1$ where $q$ is also prime (as shown by poncho's answer).
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 17:45
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace sorry, I'm still confused about q. Where do I actually get the q?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 18:43
$begingroup$
You can derive $q$ from $p$. In other words, to check if $p$ is a safe prime, you check if $q = fracp-12$ is also prime.
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 18:54
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace Thank you for your swift reply. I have computed and checked q=(p-1)/2 and my program returns true (it is indeed a prime). So I'm safe to say that q is also a prime, which means that p is a special kind of prime.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:03
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace However, I'm still confused about g. I have computed g^(p-1)/2 mod p and g^p-1/(p-1/2) like what poncho has mentioned. The first output is 1342867591052455, and the second output is 0. I'm a little confused about these numbers, do they mean that g is a generator?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:05
|
show 1 more comment
2
$begingroup$
The special kind of prime that you have is called a safe prime. it's a prime of the form $p = 2q + 1$ where $q$ is also prime (as shown by poncho's answer).
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 17:45
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace sorry, I'm still confused about q. Where do I actually get the q?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 18:43
$begingroup$
You can derive $q$ from $p$. In other words, to check if $p$ is a safe prime, you check if $q = fracp-12$ is also prime.
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 18:54
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace Thank you for your swift reply. I have computed and checked q=(p-1)/2 and my program returns true (it is indeed a prime). So I'm safe to say that q is also a prime, which means that p is a special kind of prime.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:03
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace However, I'm still confused about g. I have computed g^(p-1)/2 mod p and g^p-1/(p-1/2) like what poncho has mentioned. The first output is 1342867591052455, and the second output is 0. I'm a little confused about these numbers, do they mean that g is a generator?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:05
2
2
$begingroup$
The special kind of prime that you have is called a safe prime. it's a prime of the form $p = 2q + 1$ where $q$ is also prime (as shown by poncho's answer).
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 17:45
$begingroup$
The special kind of prime that you have is called a safe prime. it's a prime of the form $p = 2q + 1$ where $q$ is also prime (as shown by poncho's answer).
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 17:45
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace sorry, I'm still confused about q. Where do I actually get the q?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 18:43
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace sorry, I'm still confused about q. Where do I actually get the q?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 18:43
$begingroup$
You can derive $q$ from $p$. In other words, to check if $p$ is a safe prime, you check if $q = fracp-12$ is also prime.
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 18:54
$begingroup$
You can derive $q$ from $p$. In other words, to check if $p$ is a safe prime, you check if $q = fracp-12$ is also prime.
$endgroup$
– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 18:54
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace Thank you for your swift reply. I have computed and checked q=(p-1)/2 and my program returns true (it is indeed a prime). So I'm safe to say that q is also a prime, which means that p is a special kind of prime.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:03
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace Thank you for your swift reply. I have computed and checked q=(p-1)/2 and my program returns true (it is indeed a prime). So I'm safe to say that q is also a prime, which means that p is a special kind of prime.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:03
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace However, I'm still confused about g. I have computed g^(p-1)/2 mod p and g^p-1/(p-1/2) like what poncho has mentioned. The first output is 1342867591052455, and the second output is 0. I'm a little confused about these numbers, do they mean that g is a generator?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:05
$begingroup$
@puzzlepalace However, I'm still confused about g. I have computed g^(p-1)/2 mod p and g^p-1/(p-1/2) like what poncho has mentioned. The first output is 1342867591052455, and the second output is 0. I'm a little confused about these numbers, do they mean that g is a generator?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:05
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Steps:
Factor $p-1$, that is, find the primes which, multiplied together, produce $p-1$. In your case, $2685735182215186 = 2 times 1342867591107593$
For each prime factor $q$ of $p-1$, verify that $g^(p-1)/q notequiv 1pmod p$
If every such $q$ verifies (that is, they were all not 1), then $g$ is a generator.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java'slong
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should useBigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
In general, proving that $g$ is a primitive root (often called a generator) of a cyclic group is fairly simple. Note this holds true for non prime modulo as well
Step 1:
Verify that $0leqslant g lt p$ and $(g,p)=1$
In other words, verify that $g$ is less than p but greater than or equal to 0, and that $g$ and $p$ are coprime.
Where $g$ is the element of the group in question and p is the modulus being used (or: $mathbbZ_p$).
Step 2:
Calculate $phi(p)$ where $phi$ is the Totient Function. If it happens that $p$ is prime, $phi(p)=p-1$
Then break $phi(p)$ into it's prime factors such that $phi(p)=prodlimits_iq_i^r_i$ Where each $q_i$ is a prime factor and $r_i$ is the power that prime factor is raised to.
(This notation simply implies that $phi(p)$ is to be broken down into it's prime factors $q_i$ such that $phi(p)=q_1^r_1times q_2^r_2times ...$)
Verify that $g^phi(p)/q_inotequiv 1 (mod p)$ $forall q_i$
Ignore the power $r_i$ for this calculation.
Assuming these conditions are met, $g$ is a generator of $mathbbZ_p$.
Example:
Let $p=101$, $g=2$.
Step 1:
$0leqslant 2 lt 101$ $checkmark$
and
$(2,101) = 1$ $checkmark $
Which can be checked using the Extended Euclidean Algorithm if $p$ is not prime (however, 101 is prime, so 2 is most definitely coprime to it).
Step 2
Calculate $phi(p)=p-1=phi(101)=101-1=100$ (Assuming $p$ is prime).
Now that we know $phi(101)=100$, we can break it down into it's prime factors. Check that:
$100=2^2times5^2$
This means that our $q_1=2, q_2=5$. Remember that we ignore the powers $r_i$ of each of the prime factors for our computations.
Finally, we check:
$2^phi(101)/q_1=2^(101-1)/2=2^50equiv100notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$2^phi(101)/q_2=2^(101-1)/5=2^20equiv95notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$therefore g$ is a generator $mod 101$.
(Read: therefore $g$ is a generator $mod 101$.)
Note that this process is to be done $forall q_i$, in our case there were only two.
(Read: note that this process is to be done for all $q_i$...)
In your example, and in practical examples, $p$ is very large. First, confirming that $p$ is prime can be difficult. Second, factorizing $phi(p)$ into it's prme factors can be quite difficult. I recommend implementing an algorithm to help you, such as Pollard's rho algorithm (although there are others that'll work, like trivial division).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$p = 2685735182215187$ is prime, and $p - 1 = 2q$ where $q = 1342867591107593$ is prime, so the only possible orders of $g$ are $1, 2, q, 2q$, corresponding respectively to
$g equiv 1 pmod p$,
$g equiv -1 pmod p$,
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic residue modulo $p$, i.e. there is some $h notin 0,pm1$ such that $g equiv h^2 pmod p$, and
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$, which in this case generates the whole group.
If $g$ is neither $1$ nor $-1$, it suffices to compute the Legendre symbol of $g$, $$(g|p) := g^(p - 1)/2 bmod p = g^q bmod p,$$ which is 1 if $g$ is a quadratic residue and 0 or -1 if it is not. Obviously you can compute $g^q bmod p$ directly, as in poncho's answer which applies more generally, but for many values of $g$, there are special cases which you can test much more easily by the quadratic reciprocity theorem, that, for distinct odd primes $a$ and $b$, $(a|b) = -(b|a)$ if $a equiv b equiv 3 pmod 4$, whereas $(a|b) = (b|a)$ if either $a equiv 1 pmod 4$ or $b equiv 1 pmod 4$.
$3 equiv p equiv 3 pmod 4$, so $(3|p) = -(p|3) = -p^(3 - 1)/2 bmod 3 = -p^1 bmod 3 = 1$, so 3 is a quadratic residue and thus is not a generator of the whole group.
$5 equiv 1 pmod 4$, so $(5|p) = (p|5) = p^(5 - 1)/2 bmod 5 = p^2 bmod 5 = 4 bmod 5 = -1$, so 5 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.- The second supplement to the quadratic reciprocity theorem is that $g = 2$ is a quadratic residue modulo $p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8$. In this case, $p equiv 3 pmod 8$, so 2 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Steps:
Factor $p-1$, that is, find the primes which, multiplied together, produce $p-1$. In your case, $2685735182215186 = 2 times 1342867591107593$
For each prime factor $q$ of $p-1$, verify that $g^(p-1)/q notequiv 1pmod p$
If every such $q$ verifies (that is, they were all not 1), then $g$ is a generator.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java'slong
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should useBigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Steps:
Factor $p-1$, that is, find the primes which, multiplied together, produce $p-1$. In your case, $2685735182215186 = 2 times 1342867591107593$
For each prime factor $q$ of $p-1$, verify that $g^(p-1)/q notequiv 1pmod p$
If every such $q$ verifies (that is, they were all not 1), then $g$ is a generator.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java'slong
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should useBigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Steps:
Factor $p-1$, that is, find the primes which, multiplied together, produce $p-1$. In your case, $2685735182215186 = 2 times 1342867591107593$
For each prime factor $q$ of $p-1$, verify that $g^(p-1)/q notequiv 1pmod p$
If every such $q$ verifies (that is, they were all not 1), then $g$ is a generator.
$endgroup$
Steps:
Factor $p-1$, that is, find the primes which, multiplied together, produce $p-1$. In your case, $2685735182215186 = 2 times 1342867591107593$
For each prime factor $q$ of $p-1$, verify that $g^(p-1)/q notequiv 1pmod p$
If every such $q$ verifies (that is, they were all not 1), then $g$ is a generator.
answered Mar 26 at 16:33
ponchoponcho
94.7k2151248
94.7k2151248
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java'slong
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should useBigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java'slong
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should useBigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.
$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
1
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Hey @poncho thanks. I do not understand "For each prime factor q of p−1, verify that g(p−1)/q≢1(mod p)" Is there anyway you can explain it simpler?
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:13
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
@Ken: Compute $g^2685735182215186/2 bmod p$. Compute $g^2685735182215186/1342867591107593 bmod p$. If they are both something other than 1, then $g$ is a generator
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 26 at 17:18
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
Thank you so much @poncho
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 26 at 17:24
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java's
long
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should use BigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
$begingroup$
@Ken: Java's
long
type has 64 bits; it's not going to be able to store $2^1342867591107593$ without wrapping around. You will need to either switch to BigIntegers (in which case you really should use BigInteger::modPow
) or implement a modular exponentiation algorithm yourself.$endgroup$
– Ilmari Karonen
Mar 26 at 20:07
1
1
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
$begingroup$
What if factoring $p - 1$ is unfeasible? Is it then impossible to verify or are there other techniques you can apply?
$endgroup$
– orlp
Mar 26 at 23:30
|
show 5 more comments
$begingroup$
In general, proving that $g$ is a primitive root (often called a generator) of a cyclic group is fairly simple. Note this holds true for non prime modulo as well
Step 1:
Verify that $0leqslant g lt p$ and $(g,p)=1$
In other words, verify that $g$ is less than p but greater than or equal to 0, and that $g$ and $p$ are coprime.
Where $g$ is the element of the group in question and p is the modulus being used (or: $mathbbZ_p$).
Step 2:
Calculate $phi(p)$ where $phi$ is the Totient Function. If it happens that $p$ is prime, $phi(p)=p-1$
Then break $phi(p)$ into it's prime factors such that $phi(p)=prodlimits_iq_i^r_i$ Where each $q_i$ is a prime factor and $r_i$ is the power that prime factor is raised to.
(This notation simply implies that $phi(p)$ is to be broken down into it's prime factors $q_i$ such that $phi(p)=q_1^r_1times q_2^r_2times ...$)
Verify that $g^phi(p)/q_inotequiv 1 (mod p)$ $forall q_i$
Ignore the power $r_i$ for this calculation.
Assuming these conditions are met, $g$ is a generator of $mathbbZ_p$.
Example:
Let $p=101$, $g=2$.
Step 1:
$0leqslant 2 lt 101$ $checkmark$
and
$(2,101) = 1$ $checkmark $
Which can be checked using the Extended Euclidean Algorithm if $p$ is not prime (however, 101 is prime, so 2 is most definitely coprime to it).
Step 2
Calculate $phi(p)=p-1=phi(101)=101-1=100$ (Assuming $p$ is prime).
Now that we know $phi(101)=100$, we can break it down into it's prime factors. Check that:
$100=2^2times5^2$
This means that our $q_1=2, q_2=5$. Remember that we ignore the powers $r_i$ of each of the prime factors for our computations.
Finally, we check:
$2^phi(101)/q_1=2^(101-1)/2=2^50equiv100notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$2^phi(101)/q_2=2^(101-1)/5=2^20equiv95notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$therefore g$ is a generator $mod 101$.
(Read: therefore $g$ is a generator $mod 101$.)
Note that this process is to be done $forall q_i$, in our case there were only two.
(Read: note that this process is to be done for all $q_i$...)
In your example, and in practical examples, $p$ is very large. First, confirming that $p$ is prime can be difficult. Second, factorizing $phi(p)$ into it's prme factors can be quite difficult. I recommend implementing an algorithm to help you, such as Pollard's rho algorithm (although there are others that'll work, like trivial division).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, proving that $g$ is a primitive root (often called a generator) of a cyclic group is fairly simple. Note this holds true for non prime modulo as well
Step 1:
Verify that $0leqslant g lt p$ and $(g,p)=1$
In other words, verify that $g$ is less than p but greater than or equal to 0, and that $g$ and $p$ are coprime.
Where $g$ is the element of the group in question and p is the modulus being used (or: $mathbbZ_p$).
Step 2:
Calculate $phi(p)$ where $phi$ is the Totient Function. If it happens that $p$ is prime, $phi(p)=p-1$
Then break $phi(p)$ into it's prime factors such that $phi(p)=prodlimits_iq_i^r_i$ Where each $q_i$ is a prime factor and $r_i$ is the power that prime factor is raised to.
(This notation simply implies that $phi(p)$ is to be broken down into it's prime factors $q_i$ such that $phi(p)=q_1^r_1times q_2^r_2times ...$)
Verify that $g^phi(p)/q_inotequiv 1 (mod p)$ $forall q_i$
Ignore the power $r_i$ for this calculation.
Assuming these conditions are met, $g$ is a generator of $mathbbZ_p$.
Example:
Let $p=101$, $g=2$.
Step 1:
$0leqslant 2 lt 101$ $checkmark$
and
$(2,101) = 1$ $checkmark $
Which can be checked using the Extended Euclidean Algorithm if $p$ is not prime (however, 101 is prime, so 2 is most definitely coprime to it).
Step 2
Calculate $phi(p)=p-1=phi(101)=101-1=100$ (Assuming $p$ is prime).
Now that we know $phi(101)=100$, we can break it down into it's prime factors. Check that:
$100=2^2times5^2$
This means that our $q_1=2, q_2=5$. Remember that we ignore the powers $r_i$ of each of the prime factors for our computations.
Finally, we check:
$2^phi(101)/q_1=2^(101-1)/2=2^50equiv100notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$2^phi(101)/q_2=2^(101-1)/5=2^20equiv95notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$therefore g$ is a generator $mod 101$.
(Read: therefore $g$ is a generator $mod 101$.)
Note that this process is to be done $forall q_i$, in our case there were only two.
(Read: note that this process is to be done for all $q_i$...)
In your example, and in practical examples, $p$ is very large. First, confirming that $p$ is prime can be difficult. Second, factorizing $phi(p)$ into it's prme factors can be quite difficult. I recommend implementing an algorithm to help you, such as Pollard's rho algorithm (although there are others that'll work, like trivial division).
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, proving that $g$ is a primitive root (often called a generator) of a cyclic group is fairly simple. Note this holds true for non prime modulo as well
Step 1:
Verify that $0leqslant g lt p$ and $(g,p)=1$
In other words, verify that $g$ is less than p but greater than or equal to 0, and that $g$ and $p$ are coprime.
Where $g$ is the element of the group in question and p is the modulus being used (or: $mathbbZ_p$).
Step 2:
Calculate $phi(p)$ where $phi$ is the Totient Function. If it happens that $p$ is prime, $phi(p)=p-1$
Then break $phi(p)$ into it's prime factors such that $phi(p)=prodlimits_iq_i^r_i$ Where each $q_i$ is a prime factor and $r_i$ is the power that prime factor is raised to.
(This notation simply implies that $phi(p)$ is to be broken down into it's prime factors $q_i$ such that $phi(p)=q_1^r_1times q_2^r_2times ...$)
Verify that $g^phi(p)/q_inotequiv 1 (mod p)$ $forall q_i$
Ignore the power $r_i$ for this calculation.
Assuming these conditions are met, $g$ is a generator of $mathbbZ_p$.
Example:
Let $p=101$, $g=2$.
Step 1:
$0leqslant 2 lt 101$ $checkmark$
and
$(2,101) = 1$ $checkmark $
Which can be checked using the Extended Euclidean Algorithm if $p$ is not prime (however, 101 is prime, so 2 is most definitely coprime to it).
Step 2
Calculate $phi(p)=p-1=phi(101)=101-1=100$ (Assuming $p$ is prime).
Now that we know $phi(101)=100$, we can break it down into it's prime factors. Check that:
$100=2^2times5^2$
This means that our $q_1=2, q_2=5$. Remember that we ignore the powers $r_i$ of each of the prime factors for our computations.
Finally, we check:
$2^phi(101)/q_1=2^(101-1)/2=2^50equiv100notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$2^phi(101)/q_2=2^(101-1)/5=2^20equiv95notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$therefore g$ is a generator $mod 101$.
(Read: therefore $g$ is a generator $mod 101$.)
Note that this process is to be done $forall q_i$, in our case there were only two.
(Read: note that this process is to be done for all $q_i$...)
In your example, and in practical examples, $p$ is very large. First, confirming that $p$ is prime can be difficult. Second, factorizing $phi(p)$ into it's prme factors can be quite difficult. I recommend implementing an algorithm to help you, such as Pollard's rho algorithm (although there are others that'll work, like trivial division).
$endgroup$
In general, proving that $g$ is a primitive root (often called a generator) of a cyclic group is fairly simple. Note this holds true for non prime modulo as well
Step 1:
Verify that $0leqslant g lt p$ and $(g,p)=1$
In other words, verify that $g$ is less than p but greater than or equal to 0, and that $g$ and $p$ are coprime.
Where $g$ is the element of the group in question and p is the modulus being used (or: $mathbbZ_p$).
Step 2:
Calculate $phi(p)$ where $phi$ is the Totient Function. If it happens that $p$ is prime, $phi(p)=p-1$
Then break $phi(p)$ into it's prime factors such that $phi(p)=prodlimits_iq_i^r_i$ Where each $q_i$ is a prime factor and $r_i$ is the power that prime factor is raised to.
(This notation simply implies that $phi(p)$ is to be broken down into it's prime factors $q_i$ such that $phi(p)=q_1^r_1times q_2^r_2times ...$)
Verify that $g^phi(p)/q_inotequiv 1 (mod p)$ $forall q_i$
Ignore the power $r_i$ for this calculation.
Assuming these conditions are met, $g$ is a generator of $mathbbZ_p$.
Example:
Let $p=101$, $g=2$.
Step 1:
$0leqslant 2 lt 101$ $checkmark$
and
$(2,101) = 1$ $checkmark $
Which can be checked using the Extended Euclidean Algorithm if $p$ is not prime (however, 101 is prime, so 2 is most definitely coprime to it).
Step 2
Calculate $phi(p)=p-1=phi(101)=101-1=100$ (Assuming $p$ is prime).
Now that we know $phi(101)=100$, we can break it down into it's prime factors. Check that:
$100=2^2times5^2$
This means that our $q_1=2, q_2=5$. Remember that we ignore the powers $r_i$ of each of the prime factors for our computations.
Finally, we check:
$2^phi(101)/q_1=2^(101-1)/2=2^50equiv100notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$2^phi(101)/q_2=2^(101-1)/5=2^20equiv95notequiv1(mod 101)checkmark$
$therefore g$ is a generator $mod 101$.
(Read: therefore $g$ is a generator $mod 101$.)
Note that this process is to be done $forall q_i$, in our case there were only two.
(Read: note that this process is to be done for all $q_i$...)
In your example, and in practical examples, $p$ is very large. First, confirming that $p$ is prime can be difficult. Second, factorizing $phi(p)$ into it's prme factors can be quite difficult. I recommend implementing an algorithm to help you, such as Pollard's rho algorithm (although there are others that'll work, like trivial division).
edited Mar 27 at 13:50
answered Mar 26 at 23:48
TryingToPassCollegeTryingToPassCollege
613
613
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
Hi @TryingToPassCollege, thank you so much. However, could you give an example? For learning purpose, for example, p = 2685735182104907 and g = 2.. I understand from Step 1 that from the looks of my p and g, it is definitely between 0 and p, and they are definitely coprime because I made a primality check on Java, and p is a prime. As such, g = 2, is a coprime as well. From step 2 onwards, I'm a little confused because tbh I don't understand most of the symbols. I feel like I'm lacking a lot of mathematics experience.. So sorry for all the trouble, as I don't have anyone else to turn to.
$endgroup$
– Ken
Mar 27 at 6:02
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
@Ken I have added an example, a few read as descriptions to explain the symbols, and a small summary about applying this method if $p$ is large. Hope this helps.
$endgroup$
– TryingToPassCollege
Mar 27 at 13:47
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
$begingroup$
Note that non-prime modulii (specially, ones with two distinct odd prime factors) do not have generators; that is, there is no element $g$ where $g^x bmod n$ is all members of $mathbbZ_n^*$
$endgroup$
– poncho
Mar 27 at 16:03
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$p = 2685735182215187$ is prime, and $p - 1 = 2q$ where $q = 1342867591107593$ is prime, so the only possible orders of $g$ are $1, 2, q, 2q$, corresponding respectively to
$g equiv 1 pmod p$,
$g equiv -1 pmod p$,
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic residue modulo $p$, i.e. there is some $h notin 0,pm1$ such that $g equiv h^2 pmod p$, and
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$, which in this case generates the whole group.
If $g$ is neither $1$ nor $-1$, it suffices to compute the Legendre symbol of $g$, $$(g|p) := g^(p - 1)/2 bmod p = g^q bmod p,$$ which is 1 if $g$ is a quadratic residue and 0 or -1 if it is not. Obviously you can compute $g^q bmod p$ directly, as in poncho's answer which applies more generally, but for many values of $g$, there are special cases which you can test much more easily by the quadratic reciprocity theorem, that, for distinct odd primes $a$ and $b$, $(a|b) = -(b|a)$ if $a equiv b equiv 3 pmod 4$, whereas $(a|b) = (b|a)$ if either $a equiv 1 pmod 4$ or $b equiv 1 pmod 4$.
$3 equiv p equiv 3 pmod 4$, so $(3|p) = -(p|3) = -p^(3 - 1)/2 bmod 3 = -p^1 bmod 3 = 1$, so 3 is a quadratic residue and thus is not a generator of the whole group.
$5 equiv 1 pmod 4$, so $(5|p) = (p|5) = p^(5 - 1)/2 bmod 5 = p^2 bmod 5 = 4 bmod 5 = -1$, so 5 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.- The second supplement to the quadratic reciprocity theorem is that $g = 2$ is a quadratic residue modulo $p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8$. In this case, $p equiv 3 pmod 8$, so 2 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$p = 2685735182215187$ is prime, and $p - 1 = 2q$ where $q = 1342867591107593$ is prime, so the only possible orders of $g$ are $1, 2, q, 2q$, corresponding respectively to
$g equiv 1 pmod p$,
$g equiv -1 pmod p$,
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic residue modulo $p$, i.e. there is some $h notin 0,pm1$ such that $g equiv h^2 pmod p$, and
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$, which in this case generates the whole group.
If $g$ is neither $1$ nor $-1$, it suffices to compute the Legendre symbol of $g$, $$(g|p) := g^(p - 1)/2 bmod p = g^q bmod p,$$ which is 1 if $g$ is a quadratic residue and 0 or -1 if it is not. Obviously you can compute $g^q bmod p$ directly, as in poncho's answer which applies more generally, but for many values of $g$, there are special cases which you can test much more easily by the quadratic reciprocity theorem, that, for distinct odd primes $a$ and $b$, $(a|b) = -(b|a)$ if $a equiv b equiv 3 pmod 4$, whereas $(a|b) = (b|a)$ if either $a equiv 1 pmod 4$ or $b equiv 1 pmod 4$.
$3 equiv p equiv 3 pmod 4$, so $(3|p) = -(p|3) = -p^(3 - 1)/2 bmod 3 = -p^1 bmod 3 = 1$, so 3 is a quadratic residue and thus is not a generator of the whole group.
$5 equiv 1 pmod 4$, so $(5|p) = (p|5) = p^(5 - 1)/2 bmod 5 = p^2 bmod 5 = 4 bmod 5 = -1$, so 5 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.- The second supplement to the quadratic reciprocity theorem is that $g = 2$ is a quadratic residue modulo $p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8$. In this case, $p equiv 3 pmod 8$, so 2 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$p = 2685735182215187$ is prime, and $p - 1 = 2q$ where $q = 1342867591107593$ is prime, so the only possible orders of $g$ are $1, 2, q, 2q$, corresponding respectively to
$g equiv 1 pmod p$,
$g equiv -1 pmod p$,
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic residue modulo $p$, i.e. there is some $h notin 0,pm1$ such that $g equiv h^2 pmod p$, and
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$, which in this case generates the whole group.
If $g$ is neither $1$ nor $-1$, it suffices to compute the Legendre symbol of $g$, $$(g|p) := g^(p - 1)/2 bmod p = g^q bmod p,$$ which is 1 if $g$ is a quadratic residue and 0 or -1 if it is not. Obviously you can compute $g^q bmod p$ directly, as in poncho's answer which applies more generally, but for many values of $g$, there are special cases which you can test much more easily by the quadratic reciprocity theorem, that, for distinct odd primes $a$ and $b$, $(a|b) = -(b|a)$ if $a equiv b equiv 3 pmod 4$, whereas $(a|b) = (b|a)$ if either $a equiv 1 pmod 4$ or $b equiv 1 pmod 4$.
$3 equiv p equiv 3 pmod 4$, so $(3|p) = -(p|3) = -p^(3 - 1)/2 bmod 3 = -p^1 bmod 3 = 1$, so 3 is a quadratic residue and thus is not a generator of the whole group.
$5 equiv 1 pmod 4$, so $(5|p) = (p|5) = p^(5 - 1)/2 bmod 5 = p^2 bmod 5 = 4 bmod 5 = -1$, so 5 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.- The second supplement to the quadratic reciprocity theorem is that $g = 2$ is a quadratic residue modulo $p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8$. In this case, $p equiv 3 pmod 8$, so 2 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.
$endgroup$
$p = 2685735182215187$ is prime, and $p - 1 = 2q$ where $q = 1342867591107593$ is prime, so the only possible orders of $g$ are $1, 2, q, 2q$, corresponding respectively to
$g equiv 1 pmod p$,
$g equiv -1 pmod p$,
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic residue modulo $p$, i.e. there is some $h notin 0,pm1$ such that $g equiv h^2 pmod p$, and
$g$ is a nontrivial quadratic nonresidue modulo $p$, which in this case generates the whole group.
If $g$ is neither $1$ nor $-1$, it suffices to compute the Legendre symbol of $g$, $$(g|p) := g^(p - 1)/2 bmod p = g^q bmod p,$$ which is 1 if $g$ is a quadratic residue and 0 or -1 if it is not. Obviously you can compute $g^q bmod p$ directly, as in poncho's answer which applies more generally, but for many values of $g$, there are special cases which you can test much more easily by the quadratic reciprocity theorem, that, for distinct odd primes $a$ and $b$, $(a|b) = -(b|a)$ if $a equiv b equiv 3 pmod 4$, whereas $(a|b) = (b|a)$ if either $a equiv 1 pmod 4$ or $b equiv 1 pmod 4$.
$3 equiv p equiv 3 pmod 4$, so $(3|p) = -(p|3) = -p^(3 - 1)/2 bmod 3 = -p^1 bmod 3 = 1$, so 3 is a quadratic residue and thus is not a generator of the whole group.
$5 equiv 1 pmod 4$, so $(5|p) = (p|5) = p^(5 - 1)/2 bmod 5 = p^2 bmod 5 = 4 bmod 5 = -1$, so 5 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.- The second supplement to the quadratic reciprocity theorem is that $g = 2$ is a quadratic residue modulo $p$ if and only if $p equiv pm 1 pmod 8$. In this case, $p equiv 3 pmod 8$, so 2 is a quadratic nonresidue and thus is a generator of the whole group.
edited Mar 27 at 18:08
answered Mar 27 at 17:59
Squeamish OssifrageSqueamish Ossifrage
23.2k133106
23.2k133106
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
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The special kind of prime that you have is called a safe prime. it's a prime of the form $p = 2q + 1$ where $q$ is also prime (as shown by poncho's answer).
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– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 17:45
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@puzzlepalace sorry, I'm still confused about q. Where do I actually get the q?
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– Ken
Mar 26 at 18:43
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You can derive $q$ from $p$. In other words, to check if $p$ is a safe prime, you check if $q = fracp-12$ is also prime.
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– puzzlepalace
Mar 26 at 18:54
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@puzzlepalace Thank you for your swift reply. I have computed and checked q=(p-1)/2 and my program returns true (it is indeed a prime). So I'm safe to say that q is also a prime, which means that p is a special kind of prime.
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– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:03
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@puzzlepalace However, I'm still confused about g. I have computed g^(p-1)/2 mod p and g^p-1/(p-1/2) like what poncho has mentioned. The first output is 1342867591052455, and the second output is 0. I'm a little confused about these numbers, do they mean that g is a generator?
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– Ken
Mar 26 at 19:05