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Preposition stranding: is it possible to remove preposition altogether?
Unicorn Meta Zoo #1: Why another podcast?
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar ManaraWhy is it a “Dangling participle,” not independent, disconnected, isolated or alike participle?Ending a sentence with a preposition?“choose from” vs “choose out of” vs “choose among”“greater”, or “greater than”, in a dropdown?Is it acceptable to start a sentence with the preposition 'except' rather than 'except for'?Dropping “then” in “If” statementsMember already exists ? select from list belowWhen can uncountable nouns be countable?Stranding “of” in subjects - Possible or impossible?
.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty margin-bottom:0;
Here is one phrase:
This mayhem is not something to put up with.
Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.
How about this one, a title for a UI element:
The list to add items to.
Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?
Similarly:
The dropdown box to select items from.
Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?
Something from a kitchen:
A tray to put fruits on.
Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).
Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?
grammar prepositions
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
add a comment |
Here is one phrase:
This mayhem is not something to put up with.
Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.
How about this one, a title for a UI element:
The list to add items to.
Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?
Similarly:
The dropdown box to select items from.
Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?
Something from a kitchen:
A tray to put fruits on.
Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).
Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?
grammar prepositions
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.
– WS2
Mar 26 at 19:12
Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.
– Hugh
Mar 26 at 19:36
add a comment |
Here is one phrase:
This mayhem is not something to put up with.
Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.
How about this one, a title for a UI element:
The list to add items to.
Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?
Similarly:
The dropdown box to select items from.
Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?
Something from a kitchen:
A tray to put fruits on.
Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).
Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?
grammar prepositions
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
Here is one phrase:
This mayhem is not something to put up with.
Here "put up with" is a complete expression, so I cannot simply drop "with" or "up" from the end.
How about this one, a title for a UI element:
The list to add items to.
Can I drop "to" from the end? Will it still be valid grammar? Will the meaning still be the same?
Similarly:
The dropdown box to select items from.
Can I drop "from" from the above sentence?
Something from a kitchen:
A tray to put fruits on.
Can I just say "A tray to put fruits"? (Yes, I know, a "fruit tray" or a "tray for fruits" would be better, but this is not my question).
Is there a name for this grammar form, where a dangling preposition is dropped?
grammar prepositions
grammar prepositions
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
asked Mar 26 at 18:00
Rusty CoreRusty Core
1767
1767
The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.
– WS2
Mar 26 at 19:12
Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.
– Hugh
Mar 26 at 19:36
add a comment |
The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.
– WS2
Mar 26 at 19:12
Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.
– Hugh
Mar 26 at 19:36
The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.
– WS2
Mar 26 at 19:12
The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.
– WS2
Mar 26 at 19:12
Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.
– Hugh
Mar 26 at 19:36
Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.
– Hugh
Mar 26 at 19:36
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.
Examples:
The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added
The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items
The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected
The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items
I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner
I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak
The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it
The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car
The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall
The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)
Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
1
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
add a comment |
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
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active
oldest
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active
oldest
votes
By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.
Examples:
The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added
The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items
The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected
The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items
I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner
I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak
The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it
The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car
The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall
The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)
Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
1
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
add a comment |
By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.
Examples:
The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added
The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items
The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected
The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items
I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner
I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak
The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it
The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car
The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall
The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)
Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
1
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
add a comment |
By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.
Examples:
The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added
The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items
The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected
The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items
I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner
I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak
The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it
The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car
The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall
The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)
Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
By removing the preposition you'd be turning an intransitive verb into a transitive verb. This may work in certain cases, because there are some verbs that can either be transitive or intransitive. However, the transitive and intransitive versions of verbs often have different meanings. In that case, removing the preposition may result in a valid sentence with a different meaning.
Examples:
The list to add [transitive] items to -> the list to which items are added
The list to add [intransitive] items -> the list whose purpose is adding items
The dropdown box to select [intransitive] items from -> the list from which items can be selected
The dropdown box to select [transitive] items -> the list whose purpose is selecting items
I need someone to talk [intransitive] to -> I require a conversation partner
I need someone to talk [transitive] -> I require that someone speak
The car must not be jumped [intransitive] on -> Don't climb on the car and jump on it
The car must not be jumped [transitive] -> Don't jump start the car/Don't leap over the car
The climbing wall should not be climbed [intransitive] on -> Don't use your hands and feet to move around on the wall
The climbing wall should not be climbed [transitive] -> Don't use your hands and feet to ascend the wall (hey, this one pretty much works!)
Put does not have a transitive sense, so a tray cannot "put fruits."
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
edited Mar 26 at 20:37
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
answered Mar 26 at 20:16
JuhaszJuhasz
3,7711915
3,7711915
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
1
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
add a comment |
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
1
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Don't jump and climb on the car.
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:27
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
Ooh, climb is an example that does work (mostly). Thanks, @Lambie
– Juhasz
Mar 26 at 20:34
1
1
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
No worries. :) Not sure that a climbing wall is climbed on usually. The children climb on the furniture, but I climb climbing walls. Right?
– Lambie
Mar 26 at 20:51
add a comment |
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The general answer is "no" - though you could say "The dropdown box, from which to select items", "A tray on which to put fruits". It probably doesn't help much as it lengthens, rather than shortens the expressions - but I prefer them. Prepositions at the end of sentences are like sore thumbs - and if it is that to which you object, you know what to do.
– WS2
Mar 26 at 19:12
Nice question. If the answers here are disappointing, try the linguistics StackE.
– Hugh
Mar 26 at 19:36