Confused about a passage in Harry Potter y la piedra filosofalWhy is subjunctive used when talking about a fact?Using “qué” or “quién” when talking about peopleSer vs estar in sentences about compositionSome questions about Spanish tenses and sentence structure“No es culpa mía (de) que …”Talking about headaches in SpanishUsing “lo que” or “que” as the relative pronounHow do you use Alguno and its other forms correctly?The proper use of le as the indirect pronounWhy is subjunctive used when talking about a fact?Speaking about body parts in Spanish
Is the claim "Employers won't employ people with no 'social media presence'" realistic?
Do I have to worry about players making “bad” choices on level up?
555 timer FM transmitter
How much cash can I safely carry into the USA and avoid civil forfeiture?
Interpret a multiple linear regression when Y is log transformed
Apply MapThread to all but one variable
Can i spend a night at Vancouver then take a flight to my college in Toronto as an international student?
How can Republicans who favour free markets, consistently express anger when they don't like the outcome of that choice?
Was there a shared-world project before "Thieves World"?
What's the polite way to say "I need to urinate"?
How to stop co-workers from teasing me because I know Russian?
Minor Revision with suggestion of an alternative proof by reviewer
Map of water taps to fill bottles
Why do games have consumables?
As an international instructor, should I openly talk about my accent?
Was there a Viking Exchange as well as a Columbian one?
If a planet has 3 moons, is it possible to have triple Full/New Moons at once?
Is there a way to get a compiler for the original B programming language?
What makes accurate emulation of old systems a difficult task?
To say I met a person for the first time
Pulling the rope with one hand is as heavy as with two hands?
How to have a sharp product image?
Why does processed meat contain preservatives, while canned fish needs not?
Is there really no use for MD5 anymore?
Confused about a passage in Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal
Why is subjunctive used when talking about a fact?Using “qué” or “quién” when talking about peopleSer vs estar in sentences about compositionSome questions about Spanish tenses and sentence structure“No es culpa mía (de) que …”Talking about headaches in SpanishUsing “lo que” or “que” as the relative pronounHow do you use Alguno and its other forms correctly?The proper use of le as the indirect pronounWhy is subjunctive used when talking about a fact?Speaking about body parts in Spanish
I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:
La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.
And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.
Gracias!
gramática
add a comment |
I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:
La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.
And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.
Gracias!
gramática
add a comment |
I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:
La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.
And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.
Gracias!
gramática
I'm reading Harry Potter y la piedra filosofal, and I'm a bit confused about how this passage works gramatically:
La profesora McGonagall los observó mientras convertían un raton en
una caja de rapé. Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los
restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
First, is Professor McGonagall the implied subject of sumaba? If so, how does la belleza de las cajas fit in? I would have though you'd need a preposition in there, something like sumaba puntos por la belleza de las cajas.
And finally, I'm confused about how que tuvieran bigotes works; I again would have thought you'd need a preposition, e.g. something like los restaba por las (cajas) que tuvieran bigotes.
Gracias!
gramática
gramática
asked Mar 26 at 18:45
Alan O'DonnellAlan O'Donnell
2455
2455
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
The sentence:
Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.
The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:
La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).
This inversion is very usual in Spanish.
In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:
Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).
The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:
- The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.
The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:
Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.
1
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
add a comment |
Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.
The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:
- sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas
- los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.
In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".
"Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be
La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.
add a comment |
Basically, it is saying the following:
The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)
And for the following:
los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.
1
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "353"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspanish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f28961%2fconfused-about-a-passage-in-harry-potter-y-la-piedra-filosofal%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
The sentence:
Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.
The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:
La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).
This inversion is very usual in Spanish.
In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:
Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).
The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:
- The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.
The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:
Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.
1
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
add a comment |
The sentence:
Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.
The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:
La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).
This inversion is very usual in Spanish.
In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:
Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).
The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:
- The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.
The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:
Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.
1
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
add a comment |
The sentence:
Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.
The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:
La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).
This inversion is very usual in Spanish.
In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:
Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).
The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:
- The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.
The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:
Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.
The sentence:
Sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas, pero los restaba que tuvieran bigotes.
is perfect as is, and I wouldn’t go so far as to criticize the translation.
The first part of the sentence is a case of subject/predicate inversion, and is to be understood as follows:
La belleza de las cajas (subject) sumaba puntos (predicate).
This inversion is very usual in Spanish.
In the second part of the sentence, we find a nominal clause as subject, and in this case inversion is not mandatory but convenient:
Que tuvieran bigotes (subject) los restaba (predicate).
The sentence is fine as stated because reference is being made to the rules by which the students would be assessed, and by omitting “the teacher” the rules sound more impersonal and objective. This would be a literal translation:
- The beauty of the boxes added points, but the fact that they had whiskers subtracted them.
The original is in the passive form, which is in line with the idea that some impersonality was meant to be assigned to the sentence:
Points were given for how pretty the snuffbox was, but taken away if it had whiskers.
edited Mar 26 at 20:12
answered Mar 26 at 20:01
GustavsonGustavson
9,4741829
9,4741829
1
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
add a comment |
1
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
1
1
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
Ah, very helpful, I hadn't realized you could use que like that in Spanish to use a nominal clause as a subject (although coming from French, it makes sense). For future reference, one of your other answers was related and helpful too: spanish.stackexchange.com/questions/25679/…
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 22:42
add a comment |
Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.
The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:
- sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas
- los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.
In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".
"Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be
La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.
add a comment |
Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.
The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:
- sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas
- los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.
In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".
"Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be
La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.
add a comment |
Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.
The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:
- sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas
- los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.
In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".
"Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be
La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.
Based on the comment OP made in a different question ("I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works"), I propose another way of analyzing the second sentence. To me it's clear that this is neither an impersonal sentence nor is the subject implicit.
The sentence consists of two propositions coordinated by the conjunction pero:
- sumaba puntos la belleza de las cajas
- los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
In (1) the subject is «la belleza de las cajas». It's after the verb instead of before, but that's not unusual in Spanish. What this proposition means is that "the beauty of the boxes added points", i.e. when there was beauty in the boxes, that beauty counted for more points. Puntos is the direct object of sumaba.
In (2) we have a plural 3rd person pronoun, los, which stands for puntos and is the direct object of the verb restaba. The subject in this proposition is the subordinate phrase «que tuvieran bigotes». That is: "that they had whiskers (or "having whiskers") subtracted them (=points)".
"Normalizing" and making everything explicit, this would be
La belleza de las cajas sumaba puntos, pero que tuvieran bigotes los restaba.
answered Mar 26 at 19:54
pablodf76pablodf76
23.2k11569
23.2k11569
add a comment |
add a comment |
Basically, it is saying the following:
The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)
And for the following:
los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.
1
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
add a comment |
Basically, it is saying the following:
The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)
And for the following:
los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.
1
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
add a comment |
Basically, it is saying the following:
The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)
And for the following:
los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.
Basically, it is saying the following:
The professor awarded points to the students based on the beauty of their boxes
and took off points if the boxes had whiskers (imagine a mouse's whiskers...)
And for the following:
los restaba que tuvieran bigotes
First of all, "los" refers to the points and not the boxes, so using las is inappropriate in this case. It's already clear what he is taking the points off for (the boxes) so it is unnecessary to repeat it. No other prepositions are needed to clarify in Spanish, though from an English perspective, it is a different way of employing language.
edited Mar 26 at 19:32
answered Mar 26 at 19:26
KarlomanioKarlomanio
46029
46029
1
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
add a comment |
1
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
1
1
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
Sorry, I should have been clearer—I understand what the passage means, I'm just confused about how the Spanish grammar works.
– Alan O'Donnell
Mar 26 at 19:27
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Spanish Language Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fspanish.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f28961%2fconfused-about-a-passage-in-harry-potter-y-la-piedra-filosofal%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown