Can a College of Swords bard use a Blade Flourish option on an opportunity attack provoked by their own...












8












$begingroup$


Consider this scenario: a College of Swords bard uses dissonant whispers on a creature within 5 feet of him while he is holding a melee weapon. The creature fails the save and has to immediately use its reaction to move away. In my understanding, this movement provokes opportunity attacks. So:




  1. Would the caster also be entitled to an opportunity attack?

  2. If so, would he be able to augment his opportunity attack with a
    blade flourish?










share|improve this question











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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 days ago
















8












$begingroup$


Consider this scenario: a College of Swords bard uses dissonant whispers on a creature within 5 feet of him while he is holding a melee weapon. The creature fails the save and has to immediately use its reaction to move away. In my understanding, this movement provokes opportunity attacks. So:




  1. Would the caster also be entitled to an opportunity attack?

  2. If so, would he be able to augment his opportunity attack with a
    blade flourish?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 days ago














8












8








8





$begingroup$


Consider this scenario: a College of Swords bard uses dissonant whispers on a creature within 5 feet of him while he is holding a melee weapon. The creature fails the save and has to immediately use its reaction to move away. In my understanding, this movement provokes opportunity attacks. So:




  1. Would the caster also be entitled to an opportunity attack?

  2. If so, would he be able to augment his opportunity attack with a
    blade flourish?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$




Consider this scenario: a College of Swords bard uses dissonant whispers on a creature within 5 feet of him while he is holding a melee weapon. The creature fails the save and has to immediately use its reaction to move away. In my understanding, this movement provokes opportunity attacks. So:




  1. Would the caster also be entitled to an opportunity attack?

  2. If so, would he be able to augment his opportunity attack with a
    blade flourish?







dnd-5e spells class-feature opportunity-attack bard






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 2 days ago









V2Blast

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25.5k486156










asked 2 days ago









Johnny RumJohnny Rum

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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 days ago














  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Related: Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach?
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 days ago








1




1




$begingroup$
Related: Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago




$begingroup$
Related: Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach?
$endgroup$
– Rubiksmoose
2 days ago










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

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15












$begingroup$

Two questions here really, but:



1) Yes.



Even though opportunity attacks do not occur for forced movement, the rule for this actually says:




You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




Dissonant Whispers however is a bit of an oddball, as it forces the target to: "use its reaction, if available, to move".



So the target is using its own reaction to move and is thus eligible for opportunity attacks.



2) No



You use a blade flourish on your turn as part of the Attack action. An opportunity provides you with an attack (lower-case 'a'), but it is not your Attack action (upper-case 'A').






share|improve this answer









$endgroup$









  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Support for first part in this sage advice
    $endgroup$
    – Sdjz
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
    $endgroup$
    – Captain Man
    2 days ago










  • $begingroup$
    @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
    $endgroup$
    – Rubiksmoose
    2 days ago












  • $begingroup$
    @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
    $endgroup$
    – PJRZ
    2 days ago








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
    $endgroup$
    – Mark Wells
    2 days ago



















10












$begingroup$

1. Yes, the caster gets an Opportunity Attack



Since the creature is using its reaction to move away, that movement provokes an Opportunity Attack from an creature whose reach it leaves.




You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




In case there was any doubt, Crawford has unofficially supported this ruling in a tweet.



If it leaves the caster's then they provoke from them as well and they can use a reaction to take the attack against them.



You can see Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach? for more examples and discussion about forced movement provoking OAs.



2. No, you cannot use Blade flourish on the Opportunity Attack



Blade Flourish (XGtE, p. 15) only works when you take the Attack action:




Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]




The bard did not take the Attack action this round, they took the Cast a Spell action instead. An opportunity attack is an attack, but it is made outside of an Attack action, so it will not trigger the Blade Flourish ability.



See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on the distinction between the two.






share|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    5












    $begingroup$

    Two parter...



    1. Yes, you get an Opportunity Attack



    Assuming you have not already used your Reaction in this round. Normally, you do not when a creature is forced to move (via shove, thunderer wave, force wave, etx.), but Dissonant Whispers is different in that the movement is by the creature's Reaction; mandatory, but under the creature's control.



    2. No, you didn't use an Attack action for your turn.



    Per the feature, "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..." You did not take the Attack (big A) action this turn, you took the "Cast a spell" action this turn so Blade Flourish doesn't come into play.






    share|improve this answer









    $endgroup$













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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

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      3 Answers
      3






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      15












      $begingroup$

      Two questions here really, but:



      1) Yes.



      Even though opportunity attacks do not occur for forced movement, the rule for this actually says:




      You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
      something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




      Dissonant Whispers however is a bit of an oddball, as it forces the target to: "use its reaction, if available, to move".



      So the target is using its own reaction to move and is thus eligible for opportunity attacks.



      2) No



      You use a blade flourish on your turn as part of the Attack action. An opportunity provides you with an attack (lower-case 'a'), but it is not your Attack action (upper-case 'A').






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Support for first part in this sage advice
        $endgroup$
        – Sdjz
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
        $endgroup$
        – Captain Man
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
        $endgroup$
        – Rubiksmoose
        2 days ago












      • $begingroup$
        @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
        $endgroup$
        – PJRZ
        2 days ago








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
        $endgroup$
        – Mark Wells
        2 days ago
















      15












      $begingroup$

      Two questions here really, but:



      1) Yes.



      Even though opportunity attacks do not occur for forced movement, the rule for this actually says:




      You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
      something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




      Dissonant Whispers however is a bit of an oddball, as it forces the target to: "use its reaction, if available, to move".



      So the target is using its own reaction to move and is thus eligible for opportunity attacks.



      2) No



      You use a blade flourish on your turn as part of the Attack action. An opportunity provides you with an attack (lower-case 'a'), but it is not your Attack action (upper-case 'A').






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$









      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Support for first part in this sage advice
        $endgroup$
        – Sdjz
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
        $endgroup$
        – Captain Man
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
        $endgroup$
        – Rubiksmoose
        2 days ago












      • $begingroup$
        @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
        $endgroup$
        – PJRZ
        2 days ago








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
        $endgroup$
        – Mark Wells
        2 days ago














      15












      15








      15





      $begingroup$

      Two questions here really, but:



      1) Yes.



      Even though opportunity attacks do not occur for forced movement, the rule for this actually says:




      You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
      something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




      Dissonant Whispers however is a bit of an oddball, as it forces the target to: "use its reaction, if available, to move".



      So the target is using its own reaction to move and is thus eligible for opportunity attacks.



      2) No



      You use a blade flourish on your turn as part of the Attack action. An opportunity provides you with an attack (lower-case 'a'), but it is not your Attack action (upper-case 'A').






      share|improve this answer









      $endgroup$



      Two questions here really, but:



      1) Yes.



      Even though opportunity attacks do not occur for forced movement, the rule for this actually says:




      You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
      something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




      Dissonant Whispers however is a bit of an oddball, as it forces the target to: "use its reaction, if available, to move".



      So the target is using its own reaction to move and is thus eligible for opportunity attacks.



      2) No



      You use a blade flourish on your turn as part of the Attack action. An opportunity provides you with an attack (lower-case 'a'), but it is not your Attack action (upper-case 'A').







      share|improve this answer












      share|improve this answer



      share|improve this answer










      answered 2 days ago









      PJRZPJRZ

      11.7k13457




      11.7k13457








      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Support for first part in this sage advice
        $endgroup$
        – Sdjz
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
        $endgroup$
        – Captain Man
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
        $endgroup$
        – Rubiksmoose
        2 days ago












      • $begingroup$
        @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
        $endgroup$
        – PJRZ
        2 days ago








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
        $endgroup$
        – Mark Wells
        2 days ago














      • 1




        $begingroup$
        Support for first part in this sage advice
        $endgroup$
        – Sdjz
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
        $endgroup$
        – Captain Man
        2 days ago










      • $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
        $endgroup$
        – Rubiksmoose
        2 days ago












      • $begingroup$
        @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
        $endgroup$
        – PJRZ
        2 days ago








      • 2




        $begingroup$
        @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
        $endgroup$
        – Mark Wells
        2 days ago








      1




      1




      $begingroup$
      Support for first part in this sage advice
      $endgroup$
      – Sdjz
      2 days ago




      $begingroup$
      Support for first part in this sage advice
      $endgroup$
      – Sdjz
      2 days ago












      $begingroup$
      Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
      $endgroup$
      – Captain Man
      2 days ago




      $begingroup$
      Are the rules consistent about capitalizing "Attack" when it is the action as opposed to any old swing of a sword? I have said this myself and seen it said too but am actually unsure.
      $endgroup$
      – Captain Man
      2 days ago












      $begingroup$
      @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      2 days ago






      $begingroup$
      @CaptainMan See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on those questions. (tl;dr, yes they are consistent)
      $endgroup$
      – Rubiksmoose
      2 days ago














      $begingroup$
      @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
      $endgroup$
      – PJRZ
      2 days ago






      $begingroup$
      @Captain Man. They do seem consistent here. E.g, The basic rules of "Actions in Combat" (PHB, pg192) says "The most common action to take in combat is the Attack action, ...<snip>. With this action you make one melee or ranged attack...."
      $endgroup$
      – PJRZ
      2 days ago






      2




      2




      $begingroup$
      @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
      $endgroup$
      – Mark Wells
      2 days ago




      $begingroup$
      @CaptainMan The rules generally use the phrase "the Attack action" when that's what's meant. For example, a 5th-level fighter's Extra Attack applies "whenever you take the Attack action on your turn". The capitalization is less reliable.
      $endgroup$
      – Mark Wells
      2 days ago













      10












      $begingroup$

      1. Yes, the caster gets an Opportunity Attack



      Since the creature is using its reaction to move away, that movement provokes an Opportunity Attack from an creature whose reach it leaves.




      You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
      something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




      In case there was any doubt, Crawford has unofficially supported this ruling in a tweet.



      If it leaves the caster's then they provoke from them as well and they can use a reaction to take the attack against them.



      You can see Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach? for more examples and discussion about forced movement provoking OAs.



      2. No, you cannot use Blade flourish on the Opportunity Attack



      Blade Flourish (XGtE, p. 15) only works when you take the Attack action:




      Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]




      The bard did not take the Attack action this round, they took the Cast a Spell action instead. An opportunity attack is an attack, but it is made outside of an Attack action, so it will not trigger the Blade Flourish ability.



      See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on the distinction between the two.






      share|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        10












        $begingroup$

        1. Yes, the caster gets an Opportunity Attack



        Since the creature is using its reaction to move away, that movement provokes an Opportunity Attack from an creature whose reach it leaves.




        You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
        something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




        In case there was any doubt, Crawford has unofficially supported this ruling in a tweet.



        If it leaves the caster's then they provoke from them as well and they can use a reaction to take the attack against them.



        You can see Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach? for more examples and discussion about forced movement provoking OAs.



        2. No, you cannot use Blade flourish on the Opportunity Attack



        Blade Flourish (XGtE, p. 15) only works when you take the Attack action:




        Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]




        The bard did not take the Attack action this round, they took the Cast a Spell action instead. An opportunity attack is an attack, but it is made outside of an Attack action, so it will not trigger the Blade Flourish ability.



        See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on the distinction between the two.






        share|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          10












          10








          10





          $begingroup$

          1. Yes, the caster gets an Opportunity Attack



          Since the creature is using its reaction to move away, that movement provokes an Opportunity Attack from an creature whose reach it leaves.




          You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
          something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




          In case there was any doubt, Crawford has unofficially supported this ruling in a tweet.



          If it leaves the caster's then they provoke from them as well and they can use a reaction to take the attack against them.



          You can see Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach? for more examples and discussion about forced movement provoking OAs.



          2. No, you cannot use Blade flourish on the Opportunity Attack



          Blade Flourish (XGtE, p. 15) only works when you take the Attack action:




          Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]




          The bard did not take the Attack action this round, they took the Cast a Spell action instead. An opportunity attack is an attack, but it is made outside of an Attack action, so it will not trigger the Blade Flourish ability.



          See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on the distinction between the two.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          1. Yes, the caster gets an Opportunity Attack



          Since the creature is using its reaction to move away, that movement provokes an Opportunity Attack from an creature whose reach it leaves.




          You do not provoke an opportunity attack when you teleport or when
          something moves you without using your movement, action or reaction.




          In case there was any doubt, Crawford has unofficially supported this ruling in a tweet.



          If it leaves the caster's then they provoke from them as well and they can use a reaction to take the attack against them.



          You can see Can I trigger an Opportunity Attack by forcing an opponent to move out of my reach? for more examples and discussion about forced movement provoking OAs.



          2. No, you cannot use Blade flourish on the Opportunity Attack



          Blade Flourish (XGtE, p. 15) only works when you take the Attack action:




          Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn [...]




          The bard did not take the Attack action this round, they took the Cast a Spell action instead. An opportunity attack is an attack, but it is made outside of an Attack action, so it will not trigger the Blade Flourish ability.



          See What does upper-case-A-Attack action vs. lower-case-a-attack mean? for more information on the distinction between the two.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 2 days ago









          V2Blast

          25.5k486156




          25.5k486156










          answered 2 days ago









          RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

          59.3k10287439




          59.3k10287439























              5












              $begingroup$

              Two parter...



              1. Yes, you get an Opportunity Attack



              Assuming you have not already used your Reaction in this round. Normally, you do not when a creature is forced to move (via shove, thunderer wave, force wave, etx.), but Dissonant Whispers is different in that the movement is by the creature's Reaction; mandatory, but under the creature's control.



              2. No, you didn't use an Attack action for your turn.



              Per the feature, "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..." You did not take the Attack (big A) action this turn, you took the "Cast a spell" action this turn so Blade Flourish doesn't come into play.






              share|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                5












                $begingroup$

                Two parter...



                1. Yes, you get an Opportunity Attack



                Assuming you have not already used your Reaction in this round. Normally, you do not when a creature is forced to move (via shove, thunderer wave, force wave, etx.), but Dissonant Whispers is different in that the movement is by the creature's Reaction; mandatory, but under the creature's control.



                2. No, you didn't use an Attack action for your turn.



                Per the feature, "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..." You did not take the Attack (big A) action this turn, you took the "Cast a spell" action this turn so Blade Flourish doesn't come into play.






                share|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  5












                  5








                  5





                  $begingroup$

                  Two parter...



                  1. Yes, you get an Opportunity Attack



                  Assuming you have not already used your Reaction in this round. Normally, you do not when a creature is forced to move (via shove, thunderer wave, force wave, etx.), but Dissonant Whispers is different in that the movement is by the creature's Reaction; mandatory, but under the creature's control.



                  2. No, you didn't use an Attack action for your turn.



                  Per the feature, "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..." You did not take the Attack (big A) action this turn, you took the "Cast a spell" action this turn so Blade Flourish doesn't come into play.






                  share|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Two parter...



                  1. Yes, you get an Opportunity Attack



                  Assuming you have not already used your Reaction in this round. Normally, you do not when a creature is forced to move (via shove, thunderer wave, force wave, etx.), but Dissonant Whispers is different in that the movement is by the creature's Reaction; mandatory, but under the creature's control.



                  2. No, you didn't use an Attack action for your turn.



                  Per the feature, "Whenever you take the Attack action on your turn..." You did not take the Attack (big A) action this turn, you took the "Cast a spell" action this turn so Blade Flourish doesn't come into play.







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                  answered 2 days ago









                  MivaScottMivaScott

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